I would request of you that you print my letter entirely and I ask that you print my name at the bottom of the letter.

Over the past weeks I have viewed with dismay the one sided view you present of my chosen walk with God. I am 35 years old married for 16 years to someone who is also in the "way" I have 4 children whom I am bringing up in the same way that myself my parents, grandparents and my great grandparents where brought up - to respect and fear God and to keep his commandments. I have never thought of myself as belonging to a cult or having been brainwashed (I am free to leave anytime I choose).I have been aware, as were my parents and grandparents before them of the " beginnings" of the way but have come to realise that all through the Scriptures there are recorded times where God raised up a man to take his word forth to the earth.

I challenge you to find a way that is closer to the way that is described in the Bible -that we need to walk to gain eternal life, if you know of that way I should like to know.

I feel that a lot of your interpretations of our workers words are just that it is a bit like a game of Chinese Whispers - by the time the last one has heard it, it is completely different from what was said.A verse in the Songs of Solomon says "beware of the little fox's that spoil the vines". I have read the letters here of those that have once walked this way and do so no more. I feel that a lot of the supposed untruths and grievances these people have had were like the foxes - little things that these people have allowed to grow and fester within, eventually taking over the place they once allotted to God. The people who have allowed the discovery of the beginning to turn them aside have not then researched and proven for themselves that this has happened all through the Scriptures. They have allowed mans opinion to rule perhaps without asking Gods.

As a child I was never stopped from being a child. We all laughed played went to evenings and had evenings at our home . We went on holidays in public holiday areas-motor camps, attended kindergarten, school, college, and polytechnic. We were never forbidden to participate in sport- I just personally didn't like it. My own children also have the same upbringing - they have friends who are not of our faith but they are all welcome in our home.

I feel it is a very unwise thing for us to say "I am not as other men" for we are all equal in Gods eyes and it is only our own doings that will take us through this life. But if God is the one leading and directing and we are willing to become as a little child then we will know a rest and comfort we will not find anywhere else.Some of you have had a grievance with the way we as women have to dress etc I have never felt I have missed out on not having jewellery or short hair. I have rebelled in my own way but as I have grown older and have walked longer in this way (since I was 13 years) . I have come to realise that my long hair and conservative dress does not make me a freak but helps me to show to others that I am different and not afraid to stand out .I have never deliberately tried to push my point of view on religion to anyone and this is the first time in my life I have felt so strongly moved to try to refute something that I feel is damaging to my own salvation and that of others.

Some of you have had trouble accepting the point of view of an worker or an elder in the church. I too have felt this at times but I have come to realise that sometimes this is a mans viewpoint and not necessarily Gods will but to understand that we must pray about it for Gods guidance - not take exception and just up and leave. God will show us in his time what he wants of us.

We live in a world that has as its motto anything goes if we just standstill and look around us and we will see - look at the murders committed each day, the fraud ,the type of dress accepted as the norm by all, the lack of respect for the elderly and even in our schools, children do not respect their teachers or each other. I would hate to be one who saw the motto of "anything goes" as my passage way to heaven. I have been brought up and so have my children to believe that Gods way and will are best, that anything that has to go is my self will- that is what will keep me out of heaven.

I am not writing here today to try and convince you that I am right and you are wrong nor vice versa. I am writing out of a genuine concern that these pages present a very one sided view and I am hoping that I have given you another point of view to look at, and others who share my opinions, the courage to contribute to your page as I have.

CAROL CHENERY

CHRISTCHURCH

NEW ZEALAND

December 17, 1996

Dear Carol,

Your letter on internet was welcome. I can see you are very dedicated to this way. First off I will tell you some about myself. I am now 73. I was raised in the Christian religion and made a choice to accept Jesus as my savior at an early age. I fully understood Jesus as my savior and that it was His sacrifice on the cross that was a substitute for me and that this was the one and only way provided that I could ever stand guiltless before God. At thirty two I listened to three workers preach in a home in our area. It was shortly after that I began going to meeting. There were things that bothered me some, but I reasoned that would be true within any group I might encounter. The mis-use of words had to be considered. "Truth" in this fellowship meant themselves (as a name) and not Jesus as savior. Professing means taking part in meeting rather than being a believer. A saint meant exclusively one of the group rather than one considered a Christian. Gospel meant the message of Jesus only when delivered by a worker. I avoided using the terms in this manner and I am quite sure others wondered about this. So little of their real basic teaching was spoken through the years that I just fit in not really agreeing with many things.

Five years later I married a girl in this fellowship (age 37). It was another 28 years before my conscious made me leave the group. To continue to support a ministry teaching a false way to heaven was an unbearable thought. The last several years I was extremely troubled because of this and I realized my wife would be very displeased and upset at my leaving. That proved to be even worse than anticipated. She was very bitter and considered me a lost soul.

The statement you made "I challenge you to find a way that is closer to the way that is described in the Bible-that we need to walk to gain eternal life, if you know of that way I should like to know" hits right at the very thing that was foremost in troubling me. That is the workers were teaching (and it seemed all agreed ) that salvation was obtained by what we could do to please God (our walk). I realized they were misleading people into believing a false way to heaven. Salvation by the grace of God through faith in Jesus was to my remembrance never taught in the 33 years in this group. This meant hundreds of gospel meetings, dozens of conventions and thousands of home meetings with no one telling the bible description of salvation. Salvation was often spoken of as available only through the workers or the absolute necessity of the meeting in the home and of course being submissive to the dictates of the ministers.

There are few workers that deviate much from this and those not agreeing to certain doctrine have been dismissed from the work and in some cases the members were told not to associate with them, etc. These things are generally smoothed over and hidden from you members. Consequently you will not believe things that are a simple matter of history (letters, legal document, newspaper accounts, etc.).

Can you not see it is not a way we walk in by which we get to heaven but that it is Jesus himself that is the way. He died for us upon the cross to make salvation possible. Salvation is a free gift from God to us because we believe His Son. No one understanding this will ever point to a group or way by which following you end up in heaven. That is simply an impossibility. Our walk is now directed by the Holy Spirit speaking to our hearts and it will be accepted because we have believed His Son. I never encounter the "anything goes people", but I know they exist. Those responding to your letter are not part of such groups.

Last spring I asked an older man who has been in the 2x2 since a child for his testimony as to how he is saved. He wouldn't tell me this because he said he didn't know if he was saved and wouldn't know till the judgment. Saved in the scripture is used in the present tense, not future. Furthermore the saved do not face judgment at all. All is forgiven and there is no accuser. His wife said (in regards to salvation) "it is done one stitch at a time". With this uncertainty in a life there is no way a person could have the peace promised. Tribulation-yes, but not with peace of heart. Stephen had this peace when stoned.

Perhaps you are unaware that a good share of the quotes used by ex's are taken from copies of convention sermons that were taken down in shorthand by the sister workers and then later printed and distributed to the "friends". I believe most are accounted for in the proper way. At any rate the ones I've heard are very much in line with the actual words spoken that I myself have heard. Maybe you need to pay more attention to what you are hearing and make an honest comparison with the bible and find support for the teachings taught.

I suggest you make a study of the following verses.

1 Pet 3:3-4: Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

I believe what Peter is trying to tell is not that these things (gold, silver and apparel) are forbidden but that they are not to be used to display a persons righteousness but this should be shown by the inner qualities. He might have equally have said "others opinion of you should not only be the outward appearance but even more importantly by a meek and quiet spirit......." There is no indication the early Christians abandoned jewelry nor of the Jewish people having been forbidden the use of jewelry. By wrongly interpreting this scripture a great injustice has been done to many and actually the intent of the passage is violated in that 2x2 people are using the manner of dress to draw attention to themselves rather than to God. It is very negative.

You are welcome to write me by email or directly, and I would keep your address confidential, if desired. Mailing address is Darrell C. Mansur,___ [ street address provided to Carol]__, Glendale,Arizona, USA. There is so much more I would like to say but will sign off with this.

Darrell

darrell@FUTUREONE.COM

21 September 1996

Hi Carol,

I was interested to read your comments on the Webpage, which you thought gave rather a one-sided view. A few years ago, my thoughts would probably have been very similar to yours. I was born in Ireland, and years ago was able to establish that the group had started in the British Isles somewhere about the turn of the century, and as nearly all the head workers throughout the world were Irish, I felt pretty certain it had started in Ireland.

Why is it however that when the workers are questioned about the history of the group they never give a clear frank unequivocal answer ? Many of the friends here in New Zealand sincerely believe what the workers often infer, that the group started "on the shores of Galilee". The shores of Lough Erne would be a lot nearer the truth. When my wife and I left the group, my wife's best friend, when told that the group started in Ireland about 1897, said "I will never, never, never believe that". She then went home and told her Irish husband what had been said, and he had to gently inform her that what my wife had said was in fact the truth. Now this women was about sixty years of age and had sat through hundreds of gospel meetings and dozens of conventions without discovering the group's history.

John Brastead was a mine of information on who started the various denominations, and would often list the founders in gospel meetings, but would always claim "this group was started by Jesus". The only reason he could list the founders of the other groups was that these groups had been more open and honest than the one he represented. The fact that the group was started by a man in Ireland does not worry me at all, all sects are started by one or more people. I am concerned however that the workers over the years had been so economical with the truth regarding the group's history that many of the friends were completely ignorant of the facts and believe the group to have been in existence since the time of the apostles. Absolute honesty is surely the first requirement of any preacher of the gospel.

You appear from your letter to consider the start of the group as being similar to what has occurred throughout history when God raised up people who played major roles in restoring his church to what it should be. It is true God raised up people to do this, but I don't know of any who turned out later to be a false prophet. William Irvine, who founded the group, was later kicked out by the head workers. To kick out the founder is a major step and assuming the head workers' action was justified God must have raised up a false prophet to restore his one true church on the earth. If the head workers' actions were not justified of course, they kicked out the man that God had chosen, which doesn't inspire much confidence in them or their decisions.

I commend you for having the courage to write and express your convictions, and I always welcome discussion as it forces us to examine not only what we believe but also why we believe it. This I think is good, and if you wish to discuss matters further I will be only too pleased. My e-mail address is ian@thenet.co.nz.

18 September 1996

Dear Carol,

Thank you for reading and writing! It is a good thing that you are doing by writing as you have. You do make some good points. Carol, I am 53. I was never a "rebel", gave the best of my youth, health and strength to what you know and refer to as "the truth", and yes "the work" as well, leaving it only because of exhaustion of physical, emotional and mental reserves.

After leaving the work I went as long as 5 days without food because I had no money, and none offered help, and I would not beg. I continued to support it every way possible, though leaving with the residual of a compressed fracture of the 5th lumbar, no medical care, no money, and no assistance ought to have opened my eyes then! I knew what it was to live in the front seat of an old borrowed pickup, because I could not work, had no place to stay and no offers of assistance. So I know what it means to "give all for the work's sake!"

Like you, I did not feel I belonged to a cult, and believed many of the other things you have expressed. However, I know that the things which I believed as "the truth" changed through the years. Now I have more knowledge, experience and understanding than I did only 10 years ago.

There is an old saying, "convince against the will, of the same opinion still." It accomplishes nothing to address any issue except those of honesty, and belief. Someone was once asked, "why do you always answer a question with a question", the reply came, "what's wrong with that?"

Carol, does anyone in any cult think they are in a cult? Does one need to be physically captive to be in a cult? You obviously find it offensive, and with just reason from your point of view, to have your beliefs under question. I feel badly that you cannot see that some of them need to be re-examined.

Jesus said the law and prophets were until John, since then the Kingdom of God is preached. Jesus said "I am the Way". People with exclusive beliefs frequently impose those beliefs on others. Children who are indoctrinated as I was have no reason to ever question them. Sometimes GOD has to take (allow) some drastic measures to help people like me see.

I would spare you things your writing indicated you think some of us justly deserved--things that helped us see the Way (Jesus) The way as taught to me from childhood, I see now as a system, and one of men. Questions that came to me over and over while I was in the work (regarding much that is kept hidden from you and others who, even though "well rooted" must not be allowed to know lest it "destroy your faith") now have answers.

In no way do I seek for some "group" who point to their system as proof of their being right with GOD. I personally believe that which you know as "the truth" has made great effort to return to the simple practices of the New Testament days. I find no fault with that, knowing that is like the good bait in a snare. I have no doubt that people who look for "something" in life, rather than the simple "someone" will prefer such a system.

However, I will not tolerate religious deception, nor any teaching that places men between GOD and man. If there is anywhere the Chinese whisper has occurred in my life, it was amongst those I once knew as "friends." The fastest way to destroy people amongst themselves is by innuendo, and unsubstantiated reports and hearsay.

Some people in this country believe anyone accused of anything by the police must be guilty. Others think exactly the opposite. I am somewhere in between, yet I claim to believe a man must be considered innocent unless proven guilty. I recognize my inconsistency. How about you, can you see your own inconsistencies? How about with your religious beliefs?

Just because you were never forbidden sports does not mean some of the rest of us haven't. I was. I accepted it without rancor, but I would have enjoyed participating in them while in school. We did have many do's and don'ts. I was taught to believe everyone was going to hell except those in that system, and that the workers could determine who was and was not saved.

I believed Jesus to be fully GOD and fully man since I was a child. I knew GOD to be a plural being with a singular identity. It surprised me to find out that most of the rest of the group did not believe that at all! So, Carol, people are not saved because they believe in a church in the home and a preacher without a home. They are saved by GOD'S Grace and Faith in Jesus!

All must Pray, Ask GOD, not for confirmation of what one already believes but for Him to reveal Himself to themselves! While you appear to question it may be so, we who write here love those of you, and the workers more than ever. We hate, repeat HATE, lies and deception, and most have experienced them in ways you have not yet -- certainly we have become aware of them in ways you have not yet.

Enough now, feel free to write directly to my e-mail address should you wish.

Love because of Jesus' life and sacrifice for us all,

dennisj@kalama.com

17 September 1996

Dear Carol,

I was deeply touched when I read your letter which was posted on the 2x2 list. I could very well relate to almost everything you wrote about the fellowship which you dearly love. I can honestly say that years ago I would have heartily agreed with almost everything you said. I would have defended it in the same manner you do now. You see Carol, I do understand how you feel. I was there for 15 years. I was a dedicated professing woman. My view point now is not one sided. I have been in, and I have been out. I have seen both sides. I only pray you could realize, that you are the one who has only seen one side.

In your letter you mentioned "little untruths and grievances" that former friends allowed to grow and fester in their lives which eventually took the place they once allotted to God, thus resulting in them falling away. Please hear my side.

The hand of God has been on my life since I was a very young child. Unfortunately I never had the privilege of belonging to a Godly home. I would tag along to church with anyone who was kind enough to take me. When I came in contact with this fellowship there were several very specific reasons why I accepted it as being true. I was told that unlike any other worldly church, this way had no earthly founder. No man’s name could be attached to this fellowship. It was a direct continuation of the ministry of Christ’s disciples. It was not until years later I heard the name William Irvine.

I was also told that within this fellowship there was perfect harmony. Unlike worldly churches where there are disagreements and divisions, the workers all preached the same message. This to, I found out later, was not true. Within the body of this fellowship there is a wide range of different teachings going on. (Divorce & Remarriage, Who Jesus is, Holidays, Manner of dress, Acceptable activities, etc., etc., etc.) The only thing that is agreed upon is the 2x2 ministry and meetings in the home. For years I have heard "the people are not perfect, but the way is." I don’t understand. How can a ministry that claims truth and perfection, on the other hand, lie or give half truths to gain or keep their followers?

When I professed, I surrendered my thoughts and ideas to follow whatever the workers told me. After all, they were the servants of God. Over the years when questions arose I pushed aside my feeling, because I wanted to fit in. I wanted to do God’s will. Unlike what many may think, I didn’t leave because I was bitter or unwilling for something. The final turning point, came for me to leave the fellowship, when I could no longer overlook the main theme of almost every gospel meeting, and home meeting I attended. More thanks and glory was given to the workers and the "perfect way" than for the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Just as I was presented with half truths about the fellowship before I professed, the friends within are given only half truths about Christian life outside of the fellowship. I assure you, there are honest, faithful Christians, who love, worship, and honor God. They do not live by the "anything goes standard." The danger for anyone inside or outside of any fellowship is to trust in anything other than Jesus Christ to save them. A "way" will not get you the heaven, a relationship with Christ will. Jesus said He is the Way the Truth and the Life.

The greatest surprise to me after I left the fellowship was to discover that there are hundreds of other fellowships, very similar to the "truth", that make the same claim of being the "perfect way." All have their varied reasons for believing their "way" is right, but the exclusive message they preach is the same. You must belong to their group in order to be saved. The secure feeling people have in this fellowship of being the only "right way" is one shared by millions of other believers who also feel that they have found the "perfect way." What better tool could Satan use than to distract a believer into focusing on a "perfect way" as opposed to our perfect Savior, Jesus Christ.

Legalisms and unwritten rules abound in the fellowship. When I was professing I didn’t complain about these things. I was fitting in. It was only after I stepped out that I realized the tremendous bondage I had been freed from. When Jesus walked on this earth, the rulers at that time were so caught up in their own legalisms and laws that they did not accept Him as Savior and Lord. We all are sinners and fall short of the glory of God. The penalty for sin is death. Christ paid that price with His life because of His love and mercy for us. What, in our pitiful, fallen state, can any of us think we could possible do that would equal what He did? He said it at the cross: "It is finished." Is it really feasible to you that salvation could be lost because fellowship takes place somewhere other than a person's home? A woman cuts her hair or puts on a pair of slacks? A person watches TV? etc.,etc.

It has been said of me that I "lost out." I would like to say to you and others that I have "gained everything" since leaving the fellowship. I thank God everyday for His loving hand that was extended to me and lead me out of the darkness and into the light. The joy, peace, contentment and love I have found in knowing Jesus Christ overwhelms me everyday. He is my Savior and the Lord of my life. No longer is my service one of guilt and fear, but one of hope and promise.

I sincerely hope and pray, that in no way, have I offended or shown disrespect to you as I have written this response to your letter. I feel nothing but love and concern for you and those that remain in this fellowship. I just felt that it was important for you to realize, that there are two sides to every story. May God bless you and keep you in His care.

Patty Rogers

Riverside, CA

P.S. Should you or anyone like to contact me regarding this message, please feel free to do so. My E-mail address is TRISHANNNE@aol.com.

September 16, 1996

Dear Carol Chenery--New Zealand:

Your letter reminded me so much of myself when I was your age. I am now 44, have been married 25 years & have 3 girls. My husband & I were both raised in 2x2s & our parents & g'parents on both sides all professed. I professed at Shoals, Indiana convention when I was 15 yrs. old. I had always been a bit skeptical because I'd seen a lot of hypocrisy in the system & felt many were phony in their walk with God. I made a vow that I'd be honest & I'd do the very best I could. I did not want to lead a double life--after all it is God I serve--He knows all & sees all. That is the way I tried to live & to bring up our children.

At your age--I would have defended the system just like you are doing--for I believed it with ALL my heart & soul.

About 5 yrs. ago, many things began to change. There was a very legalistic worker in our area & she made SUCH a big deal over the fact that some of the girls/women wore split skirts, culottes, shorts--whatever you want to call them to a picnic of the "friends" at a state park. None of these outfits were immodest & the shortest ones weren't more than 3" above the knee--many were longer. (Many of these girls were playing volleyball, in boats, etc.) We weren't even involved because we were in "regulation dress" (skirts) but we were told by the sister workers that they felt they had to visit each home & chastise them about their manner of dress. It was just such a big deal about nothing. I talked to some of these who were reprimanded & the consensus was pretty much that they'd still wear these clothes, just not around the workers. (They must be doing that because I saw one of these women recently in the grocery store wearing shorts). Yes, you might be right, this did have a tendency to fester because no one would forget it & let it drop. Idiotic things like this kept coming up all summer. It really grated on me every time we sang the hymn, "Not unto men I labor, & my service is unto thee", because I knew that was not happening here.

Also a sister worker kept asking our oldest daughter questions about what went on in our home. I had nothing to hide & would gladly have answered her questions but I did not appreciate her asking my kids & behind my back? Also one disagreed with me on a disciplinary action with our daughter. It had nothing to do with this worker. She questioned me about it & said since our oldest daughter was professing she should have more privileges than our younger girls who weren't professing. I told her I absolutely disagreed with her & I would NOT use those kind of tactics with my kids. I knew too many kids who professed to please their parents & to get to do more because they were professing.

During this time I began to see things from a bit different perspective. When we went to convention in the fall--I earnestly prayed for God's help because I felt so confused. Three days of convention did not help--I came away feeling empty spiritually. I'd always refused to read any books because I felt so content, so satisfied. But I did read the Secret Sect about 3 mos. after conv. I had made up my mind though, that I would NOT believe it. The more my husband & I read, the more convinced we became that this "truth &way" we'd always loved, had been started by a man. In the mtg. I grew up in, one family spoke of when the workers set foot on American soil in the early1900s, of the first conventions in this country, in our state--& lo & behold, that is what this book was confirming. I can't explain how we felt during this time. We had told people all our lives, told our children & been told by our parents, g'parents & workers that this way started in the Bible, not by any man. If you've always known--you had a great advantage that most of us here in the U.S. did not have. We'd always been told you could tell if a church was false if it had a founder. Using the definition we were given by the workers themselves--our church was false too!! But when we told others & tried to talk to others--"WE" were the ones that were wrong. Did we start the lie? It obviously IS a lie because you & others knew about the beginning of it--we didn't. Many still today refuse to admit when it started, so the lie is perpetuated. Have YOU ever repeated something someone told you that you thought was true only to find out later that it wasn't? If so, how did that make you feel? Didn't you feel used, betrayed, deceived & distrustful of that person after that?Think what a larger scale this was for us. Suddenly the very platform we'd stood on all our lives & believed in above all things--was false. (again the worker's definition). The people we'd fellowshipped with all our lives no longer wanted to even "talk" to us. We felt like orphans abandoned by our parents because we asked questions--just trying to find out the truth about the "truth". Try to put yourself in our place before you criticize us too harshly. However, harsh & critical judgment is what we've come to expect.This presented us with a time when we began to study our Bibles like never before. I began with some real basic things that were the foundation of my belief. I studied the mtg.in the home. This time though, I read the Bible forwhat it said, instead of trying to make it fit into the doctrine I'd been raised to believe. Yes, there were mtgs. in the home in the Bible, but also they met by the seaside, synagogue & other places. I came to the conclusion that what took place "in" the mtg. was more important than "where" it took place. One by one, so many of the things I'd been taught were absolutes, fell by the wayside as I read what the Bible said, instead of how the Bible had always been interpreted for me. Please remember--I was not trying to be contentious--I just wanted to do the will of God. I wanted nothing more than to prove the workers right! This was an extremely painful process for me. I had nightmares & would wake up with my heart pounding in my chest. I had trouble sleeping, yet all my waking thoughts were consumed with what was going on & what was happening in my life. I fell on my knees many times before God & just cried & prayed that He'd guide me & help me. I prayed that He would show me His will--whatever it took, wherever it led--just to please not forsake me. I truly felt like I was losing my mind (some from mtg. made that judgement against me & others who left!) Please do NOT make light of the suffering I experienced through this as others have.

I'm so thankful to God in His mercy & kindness that He sent others who'd been through this experience to help me. They showed love, support & understanding & sound scriptural guidance. Also after exhausting all efforts of trying to talk to workers & the few friends (& they were VERY few) & family still in the group, I came to the conclusion that there was nothing there for me. You said others repeat the workers words incorrectly--well you could have knocked me over with a feather the first time I heard one tell us what we knew to be a lie, but since then I've heard more from their own lips to my own ears. That is something that they will have to answer for & I'll leave it at that. However, I have no respect left for someone who cannot even tell the truth & the irony of that is that in this country at least--it's called "The Truth"!

I didn't intend for this to last this long but I have to address one more thing in your letter. As far as the women's conservative dress--Who are you drawing attention to when you "stand out" in a crowd? Why do you want to draw attention to yourSELF when it is Jesus who paid the price for us--when it is HE we should be pointing others to? Appearance means so little. The Bible says it's not the outward adorning but what is on the inside that matters.I'm sure you've always been told that the adorning is short hair, slacks, jewelry, make-up, etc. So is the plain, conservative dress what makes the person, or is it still what the Bible says, "THE INSIDE" that counts? There was a murder committed in Oklahoma recently by a professing woman to her professing husband. In fact, I believe she killed him right after a Wed.night mtg. The pictures I saw in the paper were of a woman with a dress on, hair slicked back in a tight bun, no make-up or jewelry that I could see--yet she committed this heinous crime that she's now in prison for. The particulars aren't something I want to go into, but I'm trying to make the point that you can look the part but if the heart isn't right, it means nothing. Read a bit about John the Baptist in the Bible. His appearance was really different & he didn't fit in with others in his day--yet he was greatly used by God. Would he have fit in at meeting?

We attend a church nearby where we greatly love the fellowship, teaching & worship of the Lord that we feel there. All our kids have accepted Christ into their lives & been baptized & for that we are SO grateful. You mention "a rest & comfort you will not find anywhere else"--how do you know that? Have you looked elsewhere? I know many who have left the group who HAVE found spiritual peace & true worship of our Lord & Saviour. Not all have found that & for them my prayer is that the Lord will lead them to a place where their spiritual needs can be met.

I do not want to be quarrelsome or argumentative. I know that doesn't achieve a thing but I'd like for you to re-read your letter, look at some of the statements you made, and pray to God to allow His will in your life. Leaving the security of what I knew & believed was not easy by any means but it has brought about joy I can't begin to describe. We have not left the Lord--we have found HIM. Also we don't believe that anything goes. Ask our kids--they think we are the strictest parents around!!

Please write back with your comments or E-mail me privately:

Dheiser813@aol.com

Love,

Joetta Heiser--Indiana

September 15, 1996

Greetings to CAROL CHENERY

CHRISTCHURCH, NEW ZEALAND

I would like to give a reply to your note you sent to the Internet web site re the Church Fellowship.

I suspect the reason the web site seems one sided is because no 2&2s have written to tell their side of the story. It's refreshing to hear from someone who feels strongly about their beliefs and is willing to stand up and discuss it. I sincerely hope more of the people in the fellowship will do this in the future. I feel that a lot of the verbal abuse the 2&2 way is getting lately is due to the workers and friends refusing to (or afraid to) get involved in discussions. Also it's sad that many can't tell you how to be saved other than to say we must "walk in this way" and for some reason they seem to leave Jesus Christ out of their answer.

You must be one of the fortunate ones if you heard the history many years ago. Certainly in our area in Canada, telling the history was not common practice. In 1961 when I professed the brother workers in our area were saying it had continued since the time of Christ in the same fashion and there was no human founder involved at all. We had heard little rumors in recent years about the history but never anything from the workers. In 1992 we talked carefully and kindly to one of the same brother workers I had professed through in 1961 and he was still unaware of the history, possibly because he had been in another country for many of those years. By then we had read it and were asking him about it. He told us that if he had to believe the history we were telling him, he couldn't keep on preaching! We were just telling him the simple facts of William Irvine and Ed Cooney etc.It was nothing untrue and the same story has been confirmed by other workers since then but only because they were forced through negative publicity to admit it. Basically if the workers and friends don't want so much negative publicity then they will have to stop being so secretive about FACTS that matter to many people. I think if the history was freely told it would be very difficult to keep on teaching it is the only way so I suspect that is why they won't talk about it. You mentioned the dress and hair code not being a problem to you and that is good. It was not a problem for me either but then I am a man. What does bother me though, is that when rules are strongly implied, people get the impression that doing these things is actually the "way of salvation" when Jesus never taught that. It takes the focus off Jesus Himself and His complete sacrifice that we must accept and believe in order to be saved. Many in the fellowship actually have the idea that Jesus is "a list of things to do" in order to attain salvation. Most of the friends also don't realize what goes on in many other churches and how diligently many of them worship God. There are many good groups out there that don't accept the "anything goes" attitude you mentioned. Thanks for writing your note to the web site and may God bless you.

Tom

September 15, 1996

Dear Carol Chenery,

I would have to agree with you that many of the things you may have read about your "chosen walk with God" are one sided. I do not believe that it is a result of any sinister attempt to show one viewpoint, but rather a lack of input from those who have an alternative viewpoint. I am absolutely thrilled that you had the courage of your convictions to write and share your viewpoint. There are so many people in this world of many different religious persuasions who really do not know why they believe what they believe, and thus fear talking about the subject of their beliefs. You obviously do not have that fear evidenced by your response, and the willingness to share your name, but I would like to take it one step further if I may. Peter tells us in I Peter 3:15 to be ready to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you. So I ask you, what is your hope for the future? What do you put your trust in, and why?

My name is Roger Stip. I am 26 years old. I was raised in the "way" as was my father. My grandparents were the first in my family to "profess." My mother was not raised in the "way" but joined when she married my father. I did not know about the beginnings of the "way" until I was about 22 years old. I had been instructed from infancy that there had been workers going all of the way back to the time when Jesus sent out his disciples two and two in Matthew 10. There was an individual who would travel around to different convention grounds in California trying to bring attention to this lie, but he was always passed off as insane or clueless, or bitter against something. As a teenager, I bought into the lie that the "way" was from the beginning and disparaged this man's reputation and made fun of him along with others. All he was trying to do was to share the truth. His courage, in the face of so much opposition made a point in my young mind. I began to study history as I grew older and it seemed improbable that the "way" could go all of the way back to Matthew 10, but there was no evidence to the contrary so I continued to believe. As a young person, I had never been given a solid foundation on the reasons why it is so obvious that God created everything, and why evolution is a lie. As a result, when I went to college I began to fall into step with the humanistic thinking that man is evolved from nothing, and I began to question my parent's religion. I quit going to meetings, but still had this nagging notion that there was only one right "way" on this earth, and that it could be proven because it did not start with any man, but went all of the way back to Matthew 10.

To shorten the story some, I will skip some details, and go to the point where I discovered that the "way" did not go back to the beginning. I was doing some research (I was a history major) in a book on American Religions, and I came across a reference to the 2x2s. This sounded like the group I was raised in. I was shocked because I had never really seen anything in print before that time about the "way." There was reference to a book called the "Secret Sect" but search as I could, I could not find anywhere to purchase the book. I finally obtained the book on an interlibrary loan, and read about the history of the "way." As a history major, I am skeptical about the viewpoint or outlook of the author, and how that shades the writing. I also had been trained in looking up primary resource material that the author uses to back up his claims. After all, opinions are one thing, but facts are another. We are all entitled to our own opinion, but we are not entitled to our own facts. I discovered after doing research, and reading the source material that the author had accurately presented the facts. Have you everbeen lied to? I was a bit shocked and outraged that I had been lied to so consistently from every corner of my young life. I decided to face the liars. My parents to this day maintain that the "way" started back in Matthew 10. Eldon Tenniswood wrote to me, and told me that William Irvine had nothing to do with the beginning of the "way." Other workers have maintained the same position. So, you down in New Zealand know the truth of the beginnings of the "way" but we here in America still face the cowardness of a system that is unwilling to face the truth, but would rather hold onto a lie. As a sidenote, I asked an older 2x2 what he would tell an "outsider" who was asked what the beginning of the "way" was, and he said that he would spout the story of it going back to Matthew 10.

Finally discovering the truth about the beginnings of the way began to set me free. I did not understand the truth that Jesus was talking about in John 8:32 so I was not completely free, but I was free enough to now look at the Bible through objective eyes rather than filtered through a system built on a lie. I began to read the Bible, and compare it to what the workers had said throughout my years growing up. I found that just like the foundation that the workers had built on the shifting sand of a lie, so too the structure built was essentially a lie. I discovered by reading Romans 3:23 that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Further reading showed me that sin is endemic to us humans. It is not something we develop (like I had been taught), but we are born in sin. I discovered that it was not my human efforts at how closely I could follow Jesus, but God's grace that saves me. I do not deserve it (grace), but he has given it to me for believing in his Son (Acts 2:21). He has saved me!!!! I cannot save myself based on my ability of wearing the right clothing, saying the right words, going to enough meetings/conventions, supporting a certain type of ministry or any other way. It was His death on the cross that paid the penalty for my sin. Praise God for what He has done....and is doing!!!!!! I was sitting on my couch in my living room, and I cried out to God and he lifted me out of the pit and set my feet upon a Rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So that is my story in brief. I never thought while I was in the "way" that I was in a cult. I was free to leave, but I also recognized the amount of power that the workers hold over the "friends." A cult can be defined in both a sociological sense as well as a theological sense. I believe that the 2x2s are a cult in both senses. Sociologically, there is not the physical control usually identified with a cult which tries to keep you from leaving, but there is a level of mind control. I was fed a lie to produce a response that while it was not physical abuse would definitely fit under the category of spiritual abuse. There are people today who have left the 2x2s, but do not know Jesus who are still suffering under that spiritual abuse because they still buy into the lie that the "way" goes back to Matthew 10, and that no man started it. They constantly feel guilt etc....because of the perniciousness of the lie. A cult is defined in a theological sense by its view of who Jesus Christ is. Any group that lowers who Jesus is, and attempts to strip Him of His deity is defined as a cult. Jesus is God (John1:1, 3,14)!

I would agree with you that through part of the Scriptures God would raise up a man to bring His word forth, but it changed after the appearance of Jesus Christ. Hebrews 1 says that "God who at sundry times and in diverse manners spake in times past unto the fathers by the prophets hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son" We don't need some man to raise up to tell us the truth. God has given us the Truth in His Son Jesus Christ!!! Praise God.

You set forth the challenge to find a "way" that is closer that we need to walk in to gain eternal life. Jesus is the WAY, not some "way" set up by men. We are encouraged to meet with fellow believers to exhort, edify and fellowship with one another. We are called to spread the gospel throughout the world, but we are not called to "gain" eternal life by walking in some "way." Jesus is the WAY!

You mention the interpretations of workers words like a game of Chinese Whispers. I have never really relied on what others have said about what workers have said, but rather I heard the workers speak for years. I have also corresponded in writing with some of them.

You mention that many may have let things fester within, and then let that take over the place they once allotted to God. For me, I never had a place allotted to God. I had a place allotted to the "way" I thought I should follow Jesus. My heart was not turned toward God, but rather my heart was turned toward a system.

You mention those who have let the "discovery" of the beginning turn them away. I do not believe that one should have to "discover" the beginning. If God is light then everything should be out in the open with no secrets to hide.

I was highly encouraged by a worker not to play in sports.

I believe we do live in a world where many people say that anything goes.There is a definite scourge of moral relativism spreading throughout this world, but I do not think that it has infected everyone. There are Christians everywhere on this earth who believe that God is the source of absolute truth...and anything does not go.

I have let this letter get a bit longer than I intended, but it is my prayer along with you that there will be many others who share their opinions. Then we can all look at the facts found in God's Eternal Word, and compare them to our opinions.

You may write me directly at any time. RStip1@aol.com

Jesus is the Way and the Truth,

Roger Stip

Bellflower, California USA

23 September 1996

Dear Carol,

I can see why our comments on the list would appear one-sided to you. Most of what we write is not positive regarding the fellowship of the "friends". In that sense it could be said that we have presented a one-sided view. I guess those of us who are out are well aware of the good things we experienced on the "inside", but we have also become aware that we can experience those good things in other places as well. So, many of us use the list as a place to express our thoughts and are finding relief in sharing with others who have "been there". While at times it may sound like one big gossip session or "mean-spirited" tongue wagging, the truth is that we are simply relieving ourselves of pain. We are recovering. While other Christians make every effort to comfort and understand where we have been(their unconditional love and compassion overwhelms me), they are simply unable to REALLY understand. In this forum we have found people who KNOW what we mean. I guess that does make it a lot easier to vent our feelings of frustration, grief, pain, anxiety and yes resentment and bitterness.

We are all in various stages of recovery from our association with the2x2's. Some have moved past the initial shock and feelings of betrayal to a need to rescue those who are still in the grip of bondage. Love and forgiveness are always the ideal and most powerful choices. However, we are "dust" and sometimes unwilling to choose as He would choose. Thankfully He continues to love us and helps us work through every issue. For some the process is longer and slower than others. Please consider we are just people like everyone else…in need of love…in need of acceptance...in need of forgiveness. That is why God sent Jesus. In His amazing grace He provided for our lack, for our unrighteousness, and in this we trust!

I am certain it is painful for you to hear us speak so negatively of the very thing that means more to you than anything. I remember how I felt when I heard others doing that. My heart aches for you Carol, because it DOES hurt. The fellowship of the "friends" is precious to you, and here we are just slinging mud all over it. It is not my desire (nor the others on the list, I don't think) to hurt you or any of the "friends" or workers. It isour desire to allow TRUTH to stand as it will. This is our calling in Christ. We defend the hope that is in us while we fight the good fight against deception. The enemy is not just whatever comes against the 2x2's and the worker's teaching. The enemy is the father of lies and he works against Jesus who is the TRUTH. We, as Jesus' believers have committed ourselves to Him and to standing up for what is TRUE no matter what it costs. Sometimes it is a costly battle. Those of us who have left the 2x2's have not chosen an easier way, although it appears that way to those on the "inside". Some of the pain you hear in our comments is pain that was given us by the false judgments of the "friends". How can they know how we feel? They have not been in our position. We HAVE been in theirs.

I didn't leave the fellowship because I read any of the books. I had never heard of William Irvine or any books. I'm not even sure any were published yet when I left. When I wept and prayed alone by my couch, I felt a little like Abraham perhaps. He was putting Isaac on the altar...a sacrifice indeed, yet Abraham knew God's promise so he trusted God would provide. I was putting the 2x2 system, the workers, the friends, my own beliefs, the beliefs of others, everything I knew spiritually speaking on the altar. I had grown up in the fellowship, it was my heritage, I loved and still love the people. I thought of how grieved my mom would be; my sister who is still in the "work". But, I simply could no longer sacrifice truth for unity. I had many questions...and I knew God alone had the answers. I knew He would not give me a stone if I asked for bread. After that day, I tried to talk to the workers. I desperately did not want to walk away from the fellowship, but to continue in honesty there was a need for help. When I went to the 2x2 "shepherd" (worker) I did not receive help, but hurt instead. What shepherd takes a wounded sheep and wounds it even more deeply? This may sound like I took exception to the worker's counsel, but Carol, if you knew me personally, you would know that is just not my way. Anyway, to make this story any clearer would take pages and pages, so I'll trust God to help you read between the lines. Finally, I could no longer attend meetings in good conscience…as my testimonies were not about what God had fed into my heart, but rather just what I knew the friends and workers would consider acceptable. I left in the spring of 1980. It wasn't until 1985 that I found out about the "Secret Sect" book. (That is a miracle story! But I've already written too much.)

My life changed the moment I put EVERYTHING on the altar of sacrifice. Even my preconceived ideas of what "Truth" is had to be offered up for evaluation. EVERYTHING. What can you lose? God can be trusted. He does ALL things well. Jesus said we must become as a little child. That is what I did, and found that thus far everything God has promised is true. He will never leave you or forsake you. Don't put a box around God. He can and will do anything He wants. Trust Him. He loves you. Fear is the opposite of Faith.

Please pray for us and with us that only the truth of God will be retained in the hearts of the readers of the list and web pages. By the "truth of God" I do not mean your belief or mine. I just mean the truth of God. We can both trust Him for that. Though many of our comments relieve us of excess "baggage", in the depths of our hearts is simply the desire that God's will be done in the lives of all who seek Him.

Because of His love I am His,

Linda

Dear Sydney:

Thank you for your Email of 20 August 1996. We were pleasantly surprised that you offered your Email for publication on the web site. (A couple of folks who have opposed the site have not left us a method for contacting them so consequently we have been unable to request permission to print their Emails.) Certainly we will publish your opposing view. While it is not our usual policy to publish names you have requested that yours be published and so we will comply in that regard too. [Jan 2000 UPDATE: VOT now encourages ALL who post to this site to incude his or her name.] You wrote:

"Subject: God's Way

Dear Folks that oppose God's True Way,

The anti-christ has come to this wick world by the means of this opposing views category. The anti-christian nation spend so much time opposing Christ existence for fear their people will find living hope in the Living God thru the way that Jesus taught, lived and died for. It is to bad that we as human being spend so much time comforting ourselves by condemning the very Living Way of Life showed to us by God's only Son, Jesus. I hope and pray that those of us that spend so much energy on condemning God's Will will prayer for the strenght to overcome the power of satan and wick ways of the darkness of this world. I believe that when we spend so much time opposing something that we are try to comfort our own conscious and thru these works we are cause our brothers in Christ to possible stubble and to fall short in this Walk with Christ. I hope that those that maintain this page will print my letter for all to see and will print with my name signed.

Love in Christ,

Sydney B. de Boer"

Sometimes the "friends" are mentally "out" but for one reason or another they remain in the fellowship until the timing is right for them to leave. One such person wrote this:

To answer SOME of your thought-provoking questions in your 7/26/96
e-mail (and I haven't had time to give this a great deal of thought, but
many of your questions were the same ones I have been struggling with):

Yes, I believe "speaking up" - in the only manner available to us so far -
your "ministries" - IS necessary.  I for one am SO grateful that someone
spoke up to me (_________, our friend in _________) AND that he passed
along _______'s_ name to me, because I so desperately needed someone to talk
to.  I think it's absolutely MAGNIFICENT, what y'all are doing!!  As to your
question about folks suffering, unhappy, lacking in faith, etc.:
Personally, I did not realize I was "suffering," but now I know I was -
because I was deprived of the joy of salvation!  I wasn't "unhappy" - but I
was afraid to die!  "Faking" my walk?  Definitely!!  Searching, desperate?
No.  Not until I found out about the history.  THEN, yes, definitely,
searching and desperate.  Does God care?  Of course He cares!  I firmly
believe He orchestrated ________________, timing and all.  I'm not
sure I could have handled this (_________________________) in the midst 
of lifelong friends.  Yes, of course God uses people to make a statement, 
spread the word, etc.
Isn't the Bible full of that?  Yes, you may be seen as "kooks" or worse -
"evil" - by those who are deceived.  But hey!  Isn't that the "persecution"
they've coveted so much that they had to appear and act odd to get it!  Is
it better to let God look after all this?  Maybe He is!  Remember the story
about the man whose home was flooding, and a helicopter tried to rescue him,
but he said, no, God will save me.  Then someone came by in a boat and
offered to rescue him, but no - God will.  I think a log floated by him, but
he spurned it, expecting God still.  You've probably heard it.  He drowned,
and when He stood before the Lord, asked Him why He hadn't saved him.  God
answered, "But I did try to save you.  I sent a helicopter and someone in a
boat and a log to save you, but you refused them."  Maybe YOU folks are the
helicopter, the boat and the log!  YES, I am convicted the group I am GOING
to leave is wrong!  There's a lot of good people in it, but the foundation
is WRONG.  My motives for wanting to leave?  I've searched my heart about
this.  What I come up with is:  I'm frustrated in meeting, listening to
way-and worker-worship, with Jesus as an "afterthought."  I want to scream
"What about JESUS?  Don't you realize He DIED for you?  Don't you DARE put
Him on the same level as workers!!  HE! IS! GOD!"  I want to thrill to
"Amazing Grace," as I do when I hear it on the radio.  I want the people I
love so much, yet am so frustrated with, to JOIN me in my awe and wonder at
how MUCH God loves us!  And how MUCH Jesus REALLY did for us! They don't
have much more than a "clue."  That's about it.  A FRACTION of the joy they
should have.  They mistake the warmth of the fellowship - the cultic bond -
for JOY.  Okay!  I can hear you - cool it!  Sorry, I'm apt to get carried
away about this!  That's my primary motive, honestly.  In back of that are
some not-so-noble motives - such as freedom from some of the legalisms and
being disgusted with all the ignorance - in this area, anyway - of the
history. Feeling so DISTANT from them in their way- and worker-worshipping.

Subject: Praise God for Your Ministry!  

Just read through your excellent and well organized pages on the "Church
With No Name".

I ran into this group in Dallas circa 1982.  I have never met anyone before
or since that knew what I was talking about till I saw your website.  I was
beginning to think I had dreamed the whole thing.

After a Sunday meeting I attended, I met with the father of the girl who
invited me, and the conversation did not go well, to say the least.  The
very nature of this group makes them hard to pin down... but he did say a
few things not mentioned in your pages that might should be.

To the general accusation (mine) of slipperiness and vagueness to all my
questions, he offered his responses to me as an example of "Childlike
simplicity... not needing anything more than God's Word."  I was rebuked
for seeking "doctrinal props" and "adding to the Scriptures", or at least
encouraging him to do so with my questioning.  He never asked me what I
believed.

As to the overdone secrecy and transient nature of the group, he responded
with "While we can meet in freedom now, the day will come when our present
discipline and habits will be necessary for survival." or something along
those lines (hey, it has been almost 15 years!).  The gist was that "We
will be proven as the only true Church because we alone will/could survive
a persecution in modern civilization."  One phrase that comes to mind is
"If Christianity were outlawed tomorrow, where could YOU go to church?  It
would barely impact us, as we have been doing this for nearly 2000 years."

After reading your pages, I am pleasantly surprised to see that the Holy
Spirit led me to focus on a few issues that were salient - Legalism and the
Deity of Christ - which he would in no way answer.  I told him that by
doing so he was "denying Christ", and he smiled and told me he would "not
go beyond what was written".  As this man was my elder, I did not want to
show him any disrespect, but it was a tense and spiritually sapping
meeting.

My friend had invited me (partly) to get my read of "her church" and I told
her after meeting with her dad that I flatly thought it was a cult.  My
principle reason for this assessment was not the doctrine, which seemed
impossible for me to pin down (many thanks for your work here), but on the
overbearing nature of the group and its claims to exclusivity.

She rejected my council, and rarely spoke to me after that.

Her reason was interesting.  "Dean, I can go to any city in the US - and
world for that matter - and have a place to stay and be welcomed by
'friends', for fun ... or for survival!"  This was another "selling point"
not mentioned in your documents, which I suspect is a real lure and
rationale for remaining.  The culture of this group is such that they are
used to taking others in.

Again, thank you for your work.  It is our prayer  that the Lord will
greatly bless your efforts as members from this group find your site and
can consider and reflect on all these things in a non-confrontational
situation, at thier own pace, without feeling the need to offer up a
defense.

In Him,
.....................

APRIL 1996 :

Subject: 2X2's

>>>My family have all been involved in this cult for years and years 
(50+).  Having grown-up being exposed to their beliefs, I still know little 
about what they truly believe.  The judgementalism that has been aimed toward 
myself and others in my extended family who have chosen not to be involved 
with this group has been very damaging.  What I resent the most is that many 
have been driven from any belief in Christ.

> You are certainly not alone in your feelings.  Many people who have family in
> the 2x2s feel really cheated by what the system has done to their families.
> Two-By-Twos don't usually have a closeness with Christ, that is true.  And some
> who leave the system can't find God or Christ because within the system God and
> Christ are all intertwined with the "Way."   It seems to them that when they
> leave they also leave God.   Fortunately this is not true for all who leave the
> 2x2s and many come into a very real relationship with Christ, as their Savior.
 
What I have wondered about is how they would respond to the following
verses:
 
Matt 5:14-15
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a
candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. (KJV)
 
> I suppose different 2x2s would answer in different ways; but all of them would
> likely hope that you would see their exemplary lives and an explanation would
> not be necessary!  They feel that being a right example to the world is what
> constitutes not hiding their "candle."   They DO feel that THEY are the light of
> the world! (And might I add that they are very proud of their example to the
> "world.")   Staying "in their place" i.e. remaining in the 2x2s, getting to all
> the meetings and upholding their "standard" is how they feel they are being a
> light to the world.   The womens' dress code is very important to "upholding the
> standard."   They are hoping others will notice their good lives and as a result
> come to the "Gospel" meetings and profess (become one of them).
 
How can a secret church, who's beliefs cannot be learned, be a light unto the  world?
 
> Good question.   It is difficult for them to explain what they believe--mainly
> that THEY are in God's only true way!  They simply hope you will see their
> goodness and come to their gospel meetings and in due course you will learn all
> about "God's true way."   It is the Workers and the Gospel meetings that are
> supposed to do the converting--to THEIR system.

How can a candle, hidden under a bushel, provide light to those in need?
 
> They don't expect to convert all the world.  They feel they (the few) HAVE found
> the right way and that only a few will find it.  They often quote the verse
> "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way,
> that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:  Because
> strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW
> THERE BE THAT FIND IT".   Math 7:13,14      They are the FEW!!!!
 
I'm not sure how many of the people that are actively involved in the cult
you are reaching through this website, its something I'd be interested in
learning.  For myself, it has been empowering to learn more about their
beliefs.  Its a little like Dorothy drawning the curtain back to reveal that
the "wizard" was only a man, manipulating the controls of a
device-of-deceipt.
 
> We have purposely not included a web counter on the site.  We have been receiving
> Email every week from the site.  Most of the Email comes from people who were in
> the 2x2s or have family or friends in the 2x2s.  A few 2x2s have written as
> well.   We believe lots see the site but do not write.  Some of the Email from
> 2x2s has been ugly, some has been sarcastic but the good news is that some of the
> Email from current 2x2s has been positive in that they are presently working their 
> way "out" and they have offered their appreciation for the information now available.
 
> Your Dorothy analogy is very good!  I was wondering if it would be OK to quote a
> few of the things you have said on the Web Site?  Could you give your
> permission?   (PERMISSION WAS GRANTED)
> 
> Hope to hear from you again.  A few new items have been added to the site--not
> sure if you would have seen them.  They are all marked with ****NEW****.
> 
> 
> Bye for now
> Sincerely in Christ,


................................

Of course you can use my E-mail.  Anything you need.  I don't even
care if you use my name!  Anything I could do that might help someone else, I would gladly do.

Subject: Former 2x2

I was in this fellowship known as "The Truth" for 15 years.  It has been 2
years since I last attended a meeting.  I would be very happy to be contacted
by any other former 2x2's.  I feel stronger these days, and feel greatly
relieved to have left behind the bondage of that fellowship.  I am now
finally enjoying the blessings of what God's Real Truth is......A
Relationship, not a religion!    Blessing to you.

Subject: THANK YOU

MY SPOUSE AND I WERE BOTH RAISED IN "THE TRUTH" (WE NOW CALL IT
"THE FALSE"), WERE MARRIED IN IT AND TRIED TO CONTINUE IN IT.  IN THE COURSE
OF GOING TO COLLEGE I BEGAN ASKING QUESTION ABOUT MY BELIEF SYSTEM AND MANY
QUESTIONS WERE UNANSWERED AND NO HELP WAS PROVIDED BY THE FOLKS IN "THE WAY"
EXCEPT THAT I SHOUDN'T BE ASKING THOSE TYPE OF QUESTIONS.  I COULD NOT
CONTINUE ANY LONGER AND EVEN THOUGH IT WAS THE HARDEST THING I HAD EVER DONE
I WAS ABLE TO FOLLOW MY TRUE FEELINGS AND BEGIN LIVING THE LIFE THAT I WAS
SUPPOSED TO LIVE AND MY SPOUSE WAS SUCCESSFUL IN DOING THE SAME.
RECENTLY I HAD A BRIEF DISCUSSION WITH MY BROTHER, WHO IS STILL A PART OF
"THE FALSE", AND WAS ABLE TO TELL HIM AFTER 28 YEARS THAT I AM SO HAPPY THAT
I WAS ABLE TO BREAK FREE BACK THEN.  IT HAS GIVEN ME THE GREATEST SENSE OF
FREEDOM  THAT I CAN IMAGINE AND AM SO THANKFUL THAT I WAS GIVEN THE STRENGTH
TO DO SO.

THE GRIP THAT THIS "CULT" HAD ON US AND THE LIFELONG  EFFECT IT HAS HAD AND
WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE ON US IS UNBELEIVABLE. ANYONE WHO IS "CAUGHT UP" IN
"THE FALSE" PLEASE BELEIVE THAT THERE IS LIFE AFTER YOU BREAK AWAY-IN FACT
THERE IS LIFE ABUNDANT.  YOU WILL SUFFER LONELINESS, GUILT, FEAR, AND MANY
OTHER NEGATIVE EMOTIONS BUT THE JOURNEY IS WORTH IT. ONCE YOU BECOME FREE,
 YOU WILL FEEL AS IT THE WORLD HAS BEEN LIFTED FROM YOUR SHOULDERS.  

WHOEVER CREATED THIS HOME PAGE-I EXTEND TO YOU THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF THANKS
THAT I CAN EXTEND.  I CAN SEE IN WHAT IS WRITTEN AN AMAZING DEGREE OF
UNDERSTANDING OF "THE FALSE".  I RECOGNIZE THAT YOU HAVE COMMITTED YOUR LIFE
TO SHARING WITH PEOPLE THE TRUTH ABOUT THIS CULT.  MUCH OF WHAT YOU HAVE SAID
CAN NEVER EVEN BE UNDERSTOOD BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN "CAUGHT UP" IN "THE
FALSE". 
SO MUCH OF WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT STIRS UP FEELINGS IN ME OF ANGER, BETRAYAL,
AND OTHER STONG NEGATIVE FEELINGS ABOUT MY TIME IN THE CHURCH AND ABOUT HOW
IT STILL TEARS OUR FAMILY APART.  YOU HAVE STATED ALL OF THE FACTS AS JUST
FACTS.  I THANK YOU FOR THAT.  I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED EVERY
NEGATIVE FEELING THAT ONE CAN EXPERIENCE JUST AS PAINFULLY AS I. YET YOU HAVE
GOTTEN BEYOND THAT AND ARE NOW JUST SHARING WHAT YOU HAVE DISCOVERED SO THAT
OTHERS MAY BE ABLE TO HEAL A LITTLE EASIER.  YOUR EFFORT AND COMMITTMENT IS
GREATLY APPRECIATED. PLEASE CONTINUE IN YOUR VERY IMPORTANT MISSION. 

If you can use anything I typed, you are certainly welcome to do 
so.  The information you sent me was exciting--since they don't discuss 
spiritual matters, I only had what I could deduce.  You confirmed all.  
Thanks.

 Subject: Re: Workers, Friends, etc.   Feb 21/96

 Well now I know more about them from the site than I could find out
 from my in-laws in ten years.

>Well, for starters that's GREAT news!  We want people to learn about the workers
>and all the history cover-ups etc.

 I still don't know what to think.  I mean, they just don't talk about
 anything spiritual--not even with each other.
 
 >Yes, that does seem to be the case a lot of the time.
 
 I find that so mysterious.  Is it because they have nothing to say, is it
 that they can't talk about the Bible with "outsiders"--what is the reason?
 
 >There are a lot of reasons and when it is all rolled up into one the
 >result is a quiet bunch of people who rarely talk about their faith.

 >How about this:  I'll give you the reasons as I see it and then if there is
 >something you don't understand please feel free to ask me.   OK, here goes:

 >1.  Their Bible knowledge is limited so any time they talk to an "outsider" 
>they are at a disadvantage.
>
>2.  They do not understand the doctrine of Grace.  Eph 2:8,9
>
>3.  The things that they *do* believe is a source of embarrassment for them so
> they would rather not discuss it with "outsiders".  These things are:
> 
>       - That they are in God's ONLY true way.
>       - That ALL other churches are false.
>       - That ALL other preachers are false.
>       - That church buildings are wrong.
>       - That meetings are to be held in homes.
>       - That God's servants are to be homeless, unpaid poor preachers "for the
> Gospel's sake".  [However these "poor" preachers regularly receive 

money from the "friends" even though they do NOT acknowledge this 

money by providing the "friends" with receipts for tax purposes.]
>        - That unless they stay in "the Way" they will go to hell
>        - That all people not in their group are lost, i.e. "will go to hell"
> 
> 4.  2x2s are not in the habit of PRAISING God (like other church folks do)
> They do not have services where they sing praises to God. ie. as in Thankfulness  to
> God.  Therefore in their conversations with one another they don't think about
> saying something like:  "I'm so blessed that God has . . . ."  In fact they LOATH such
> talk when they hear it coming from Christians.
> 
> 5. They are very hung up on the workers.  They don't realize that they worship
> the workers in a lot of ways.  Conversation for the 2x2s often centers around
> what the workers are doing.
> 
> 6.  They also tend to worship the "Way".  Again, they don't see it that way.
> But they will talk about the "way" long before they will talk about Jesus.
> They fail to see that the Way *IS* JESUS !
> 
> 7. The workers use allegories when they preach unlike many Christian preachers
> who use an expository method.  This means that the 2x2s never hear preaching
> that is in-depth.   They don't study the Bible as a whole.  They jump all over
> the Bible picking out the scriptures that seem to support their "way".
> 
> 8.  The 2x2s have no concept of the Godhead; the Trinity.
> 
> 9.  It is unlikely that many of them are being guided by the Holy Spirit.
> 
> Let me know if any of this rings true with you.  :-)
>
>Hope to hear from you soon.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> .....................


Wow, I am impressed.  I am sitting here thinking:  someone has just
expressed my thoughts on every point!!!

I stopped at "The Church with No Name" (web site); how we were sure it was my
mother-in-law's "church" was we had a copy of her hymnal, and sure enough it
as the one listed in the information.
 
I guess the "sect" no longer baffles me now that I have uncovered their
truths.  There would be no way to share what I know with my mother-in-law;
she now has Alzheimers and knows very little.  Her relatives in Canada 
would  never discuss anything with us--unless, I guess, we had a desire to 

join;  then they would send a "worker" to guide us.

We are Presbyterians; my husband was not raised in the "sect" because when my
mother-in-law married and moved to the States, she gave up her
beliefs--dyed hair, loads of jewelry, make-up; etc.  Then five years ago at
a "convention" when she was visiting in Canada, she "converted".  Needless  to say,

we were bewildered when she starting church going and hair growing, 

etc. and we couldn't question her; so very little was said about her "way".

I deduced all that you have stated, but I felt I was just guessing.  We just  
bought this computer for my college-age son to take to college and, 

playing   around, I announced I'd get to the bottom of MawMaw's mysterious 
church and  I DID.

I am elated the mystery is solved but saddened by their "narrow way".  But, the Holy
Spirit can still operate inside them in spite of their beliefs.

Thanks,
 
 .............<<<<<

> I'm glad you are willing to have the above on the web site.   Since about 1990 a lot
of 2x2s have been leaving.  Those who left before then often lived in fear 

and agony.  They  believed that the 2x2 "Way" was the only way to heaven 
and they lived believing  that if they did not get back to the true way they would go to hell.
> 
> I'm so glad you found the web sites useful.  God Bless you ………,
>
>…………….
>
>  ~ INFORMATION WORKS ~
> 
> P.S.  Let me know if you ever need any contacts with EX2x2s or additional

> information.  :-)   (that's a smile - tip your head to the left to see)

 

Subject: Re: Your Letter   :-)

Thank you very much for your considerate reply.  I would very much like to
continue corresponding with you (and with any other EX "friends" who may be
interested).  

I must admit that I was shocked to find out that this fellowship is not
even one hundred years old!  It is amazing that they have been successful
in covering this up and deceiving thousands of people!  

I checked the web site you recommended (pertaining to cults) and I was
astonished to discover that the description fits "the truth" so closely! 

Since I was a small child, I have had doubts about the way.  My parents had
the workers mail in their home for many years.  This meant that the workers
spent months at a time in our home.  An old saying is that you never really
know someone until you live with them, and I do know that this close
"insiders view" of the workers made both me and my brother question if they
were indeed being led by God.  As we watched how the workers dealt with the
"problems" that arose in our field, we often felt that they did exactly the
opposite of what a truly Christian person would do.  We would have long
discussions about this, wondering how people who are supposed to be fully
and completely led by the Holy Spirit could be completely one hundred
percent wrong.  Since we did not believe that the Holy Spirit could
mislead, then we were forced to conclude that perhaps that workers were not
being led by the right spirit.   

It was on these grounds that we made a break from the group.  However,
since then I have had a particularly hard time getting involved in a
religious group, because throughout my life I was conditioned to look on
traditional churches, ministers, and doctrines as being suspect.  Until
very recently I turned away whenever anyone mentioned anything pertaining
to religion.  Fortunately, I am gradually overcoming my prejudices and in
December I became a member of a church.  I attend religious education
classes (to learn doctrine that was neglected in my home as I grew up).  I
also attend services, and bible studies throughout the week.  In spite of
this, I still have many problems, and I find that the things that I was
taught from a young age are still affecting and influencing me.  The
minister at my new church has been very helpful in counseling me, although
he is unfamiliar with this "no-name sect".  

Although the Christian people here are doing their best to provide
acceptance, fellowship, and a strong support network, they do not fully
understand what I have left.  I hope that I can continue to correspond with
you--and any others who would be willing.  -especially in my area (I live in
___________ ).  I think that fellowship with other EXes will help me greatly.

I have obtained all the books currently available from RAS--but I would
appreciate any other materials you could provide.

My address is:   _____________________________

Thank you very much.

....................