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I remember when I mentioned years ago that I didn't believe that this was the only way, one dear lady said "What hope have we got if we don't believe this?" Well, I wasn't quick enough those days. But today I would be much quicker to respond with "My hope is in the Living God!" Jan 3, 2000 Rose Perry
There is absolutely no doubt that the living witness doctrine is a cornerstone of the 2x2 doctrine. To believe otherwise denies the fact that hundreds of people over the world have been exed from the 2x2 fellowship over that very issue. It is a foundation doctrine of the 2x2 doctrine. Many heard it clearly and did not agree with it. It was the reason for hundreds of people being cast out, believe it or not. Many I personally know. The elder in the church when I professed was put out here in Australia along with many others. Eddy Cooney opposed this doctrine and was excluded from fellowship ever after!
There seems to be a denial by some current 2x2ers that the Living Witness Doctrine was what caused Eddie Cooney's excommunication along with hundreds of others in 1928. This was again reinforced in 1956 in front of my eyes when Eddie Cooney was not allowed admission into a 2x2 reconciliation meeting by a head honcho, denying him the right to come back to ''the only true way.'' Any who do not believe that the Living Witness Doctrine is part of the 2x2 system are lacking in their understanding of the denomination they are in and to suggest a worker will actually spell out that fact is rather naive. Geoff Schmidt Jan 4, 2000
In a discussion with the workers in our area, I asked for a straight Yes or No to this question: "Do you believe that the Fellowship is the only true way, and that we must hear the Gospel through the workers to be saved?" The older worker very defensively said, "You're just trying to trap me, Janine. You're just trying to trap me!!" When I pressed for a Yes or a No, she just tightened her lips and stared me down. January 6, 2000 Janine Fraser
I had never heard the term "Living Witness Doctrine" either until reading about it here. However, I knew exactly what it meant because it explains: why, for the last 17 years I have BELIEVED that I was going to hell (since I was no longer professing.) Also, why would I feel such absolute terror when I first started reading the info posted on VOT except that it was so ingrained in me as a child and young professing person that I must belong to the "Truth" or face hell. Another explanation of my terror comes from the furthest reaches of my mind that was thinking, maybe, someday I would profess again and I shouldn't be filling my mind with doubts. I must recount something that happened many years ago that has stayed with me and was a life lesson that helped form my belief that you must be professing or face going to hell. A distant cousin of mine left the truth and started going to another church. All the talk at that time was how she had Blasphemed (the only sin that could never be forgiven). Has anyone else ever heard Blasphemy used like that before?? Needless to say, what I found in the "Truth" wasn't enough to keep me from choosing a lost eternity. I am so grateful today that I have persisted in finding the real truth and now have a joyous relationship with my God and Saviour. Grateful and Free Kari McElrea Jan 8, 2000
Regarding the Living Witness Doctrine--it is the very GOSPEL they are preaching. It is the message they think Jesus wanted them to preach. Living Witness Doctrine simply means that one cannot receive salvation through Christ Jesus unless they have been given this message by a worker.......or the Sent preachers only. ((((must not forget, however, that the reason the workers think this is ---that you have to accept the new testament ministry too))) Meaning if you had nothing but the scriptures and the power of prayer, you would have no chance at a relationship with God, or life eternal.
If anyone will notice, they don't even preach salvation, just THE WAY. I have tons of notes over the years that state very clearly how they feel. I have heard from the platform that the spirit itself COMES OUT OF THE WORKERS' MOUTHS WHEN THEY SPEAK, AND FALLS ON THOSE LISTENING. The verses about the SENT preachers being the most important part of the ministry; I agree, as I have heard this sermon LOTS of times.... Anyone who doesn't know this is NOT paying attention very well. I also have the notes from a long sermon at Bakersfield Convention as to why they feel they are the only preachers justified to preach and all others are false.
I know for a fact that the workers would never believe you or I had shared the story of salvation through Christ Jesus with a friend, and that person found Truth as a result of our ministering. I think many have missed the verse that says Jesus wanted the disciples to go out and make DISCIPLES out of all who believe. It is SO sad that the workers believe God is not capable of dealing directly with men's hearts after they have read the Bible and prayed for His guidance.
You know the #1 reason I could not stay and overlook the little things, is because there was a BIG issue. The workers ALL believe that this is the only way to heaven and that they are the only ones who can reveal it to you. I know for fact, from talking with the friends, that a large number DO NOTbelieve this [Living Witness Doctrine] as they personally know Christians who seem to serve the same Father as the friends. Well, the fact for me was I could never be a follower or supporter of something I don't even believe to be true. January 8, 2000
In my region it has been and is an article of faith among the 2X2s that persons can be saved only through the workers. It is clearly understood throughout the New York and Pennsylvania fields, preached at conventions there. Other persons who have a similar lifestyle, avoid worldly pursuits and dress (as do the Mennonites and Amish), even if they meet in homes, are not saved because they are not in fellowship with God's True People. They have not received the Gospel or professed through God's True Servants, who have the exclusive authority to deliver it because of an unbroken chain of witnesses from Jesus to them, coupled with their having heard and responded to the "call" to become Workers. Martha Nelson Knight Jan 8, 00
Some thirty years ago an outsider couple began to attend the Chicago Gospel meetings. Well, after three meetings they told the workers they would like to come to Sunday morning meeting at our house too so they could see how that went. So after thinking that over a few minutes the workers said it would be OK. But the next day the workers told us they didn't think it was a good idea but maybe the couple would think there was something wrong if they were not welcome to come on Sunday morning so then the workers told us that they would be at our house on Sunday morning too. Well, the next three Sundays the couple came and the workers came too, and they came to the gospel meetings in between. On the fourth Sunday the workers finely went to another house for meeting and would you know that morning during testimony the man spoke and said that he wanted to give his heart to God and from this moment he wanted to be included in this wonderful loving family and fellowship that the rest of us were in. My wife called the workers and told them that this man professed in meeting today. Wow that almost caused an earthquake, we will be over to your house soon, they said. Well, I never warmed up very much to those two workers so I had a feeling that they would not be too happy that some one got saved, well it was worse then I expected. They soon arrived, what did he say, how did he say it, they asked. I told them. Oh no they said, it don't work like this, it don't count because he must profess in the gospel meeting by us. So they wanted to annul it. Wait a minute I said, he gave his heart to God in the meeting this morning and now you are telling God that he can't have it and that you are going to take it back from God? Well, let me tell you if looks could kill I wouldn't be typing here tonight, and let me tell you between one and ten that our status dropped from a five to a three and all this because someone got saved but not according to the way their system works. January 11, 2000 Thomas V Schroeder
Yes, I have also known those who have just started taking part in the meetings without going through the "proper process".... people not recognizing the exclusivity of the group and believing we were ALREADY all brothers and sisters in Christ, so what would possibly hinder our fellowshipping together!? I have also watched while these people were "love-bombed" and "welcomed" and seemingly accepted by the workers to their face, at the same time I've heard the workers talking behind their back that they still didn't really understand... that they need "more meetings", of course. Then came the confusion as the workers began to suggest that this (already baptized Christian) but now new non-LWD person really should be baptized by the workers... January 12, 2000 Connie Jacobsen
- The belief that one can only be saved through a personal revelation THAT RESULTS from the hearing of "the word" through one of the itinerant ministers of the group often referred to as the 2x2, such ministers usually referred to as "workers".
- such doctrine existing but not necessarily explicitly named.
I have lived all my 40 years in Western Canada. To my knowledge the belief that I define above has been the predominant belief of the "professing" folks in Western Canada, at least for the first 30 of those years. I cannot say for sure whether there has been a drifting away from this belief over the last 10 years, because during the last 10 I have been gradually moving away from the group. My movement away started significantly about the time I asked to have Wednesday evening meeting removed from our home and our Sunday meeting elder left the group.
Although the above doctrine was alive and well within the group to my knowledge, I had never heard it referred to as "the living witness doctrine" until after I had left the group and was doing research into the group as an "ex". As well, I do not remember often, if ever, being told this doctrine directly and explicitly by anyone. I certainly did hear it being alluded to indirectly, and knew it through my observation about how things worked. For example, I have certainly never seen it occur that an "outsider" was ever considered saved without being ministered to by the "workers" and expressing a specific choice to follow Jesus to one of them.
Privately I, and I think many others, wondered about things such as 'how did God work with people in countries where there were no "workers" or they were not allowed'? And how about all those generations of people in countries who died before the workers came? As, like so many others, I was taught to not ask direct questions, I never asked this of a worker. I did think it was likely that God had a fair way of dealing with this and that I could leave it in his hands.
How does a person have their vision cleared to receive this revelation that they must "profess" through the "workers" to receive Jesus and his promise of everlasting life with God?
(It's almost like installing operating system software on a computer... beliefs and values being the underlying basic instructions that tell a mind how to consciously think and behave.)
A belief like this, not referred to explicitly but assumed to be so for the purposes of communication and action, is sometimes referred to as a "pre-supposition". This imposing word simply means, 'something assumed to be true' before the subsequent communication or action occurs. Many of the beliefs about who we are, and how we fit into the world are 'installed' in us as children through this very means. We absorb them by simply growing up in a family environment where those beliefs exist as pre-suppositions to communication and action.
What is amazing about this phenomenon, is that the person receiving the belief does not have to consciously think about and puzzle out the belief in order to receive it. Instead, what occurs is just a gradual growing deep conviction, that "it is so", that "this is how things are and how they work". The belief does not need conscious _expression in their minds. Although this sounds strange, people are often surprised when they learn of the beliefs about themselves they have been running their life with when those beliefs are pointed out by a third party.
Within the group, when someone becomes first in contact with them, there is no direct statement of this doctrine (or many others) to the "new-comer". Instead there is oblique references along with direct ministering about certain bible verses. Verses which speak about faith coming by hearing the word of God, and then about how the apostles were sent 2x2. This is followed by some indirect connection up of these two, and as a result the impression or "indirect suggestion" is made that the only valid way to receive the word of God is through such a ministry.
All the time that the "new-comer" spends with "workers" and "friends", their communication and action is consistent with the belief that one can only come to God through professing by a "worker". One of two outcomes occurs from this. Either the new contact is receptive to the indirect suggestions and begins to form the belief and act and communicate in accordance with it, OR, it suddenly occurs to them CONSCIOUSLY that these people believe that they are the only saved ones. If the former occurs, members perceive it as the person receiving revelation from God and the beginnings of vision. If the later occurs it is a touchy situation, as the person may outright rebel against the belief and break contact. However if they have other reasons for wanting to be part of it, (like the sense of community or other aspects) they may stay in contact long enough for conversations with workers, and further ministering to sooth things over, so that the slower unconscious process can work.
Indirect suggestion in communication serves the 2x2 group well in bringing like minded new members to it. And I am not saying that someone such as Irvine made a decision that this is how it would be done. Simply, this is what was FOUND TO WORK, just as it has been found to work by behavioral psychologists who want to help create rapid change in peoples beliefs for the sake of their mental health, physical health, and ability to cope with life. The early 'workers' found that if they directly debated a point with someone, that usually results in just more debate and the other person resisting the message. However many, particularly the less educated and those wanting others to provide certainty to their world, are very receptive of indirect suggestions. If you doubt this process occurs, just refer to Jack Carroll's written "Notes for Workers" . .
Former workers and others who have defended the belief in question (on other lists) seem to fall back mostly on the indirect methods of communication I noted previously, and never quite come out and say what they fairly obviously believe.
The "filters" we generate through our lives as B&R 2x2's and within our family groups occur gradually and are powerful. We were very successful at being secure with the understandings we were raised with, and really not hearing all the communication to the contrary. Then, events occur in our lives, and we kind of wake up out of our family group trance, and realize, that what we personally believe is not what the group is really about at all. It is ONLY then, that we can start to perceive as valid, choices which were once UNTHINKABLE to our own minds.
Jim Arnold Jan 8, 2000