• "Some people are saying that this fellowship began in Ireland 100 years ago. Well, that's true, but what's important is OUR beginning - when WE (personally) first found Jesus". Dellas Linaman, convention in Australia, November, 1996

• "It was started by a group of men and women in the British Isles at the turn of the century." 1941 George Walker

• Garrett Hughes made numerous references from convention platforms in his last years relative to the "truth" being started at the turn of the century. Garrett Hughes said at the Funeral Service for Erling Omdal, 10/6/87, Eagle Bend, MN: "Ninety years ago, a letter came from Ireland. We heard about those with no home, no name, etc. Forty people made their choice. Sixteen went out in the work - that was the beginning...There is not a country not open to the gospel now. It is the most marvelous thing ever to happen." ("Ninety years ago" = 1987 Minus 90 years = 1897! It jibes with the facts!)

• A brother worker who read The Secret Sect, stated that it's factually sound from what he already knew, except for a few minor details; his knowledge came from older workers who personally knew William Irvine.

• About 10-15 years ago, an older worker from Scotland or Ireland, Joshua Gamble, spoke from the platform at Gilroy, CA convention regarding the origin or founder of the "truth." The American friends who were unaware there was any beginning to this fellowship other than the apostles, were quite shook up. Apparently where he labors in the work, it is common knowledge to the friends.

• An ex-worker said when he was first in the work, he received a long document (probably: A Spiritual Fraud by Doug Parker) containing information about the beginning of this fellowship. When he asked his older companion Fred Kinglake whether or not it was true, Fred said, "I can't say that it's not true."

• In the August 18, 1983, Skagit Valley Herald, serving NW Washington, reporters asked Tharold Sylvester if he denied the historical account of the group's origins found in the book The Secret Sect, and he replied, "we don't deny that."

• Feb '94: Sharon Williamson, Illinois sister worker, stated in Rockport, IL gospel meeting: "Yes, William Irvine started this way; it was a divine revelation from God. He was raised up to revive the truth just like the Word of God was dormant for 400 years..."

• In 1988, Merlin Howlett stated at Milltown convention, "In just the past 88 years we have had the privilege of convention. 88 years ago there wasn't one convention on earth. Now there are 126 conventions.

• "Since early workers followed a Scottish preacher in Ireland before the turn of the 20th century, they have spent their lives traveling from home to home with little more than their clothes, Lewis said." William Lewis, quote from in the Minneapolis Star Tribune 11/2-/86.

• Los Angeles Times 9/13/82: "Richard Wulf, 27, a Two-by-Two worker in Mexico for two years, was asked about this apparent suppression of the sect's origins. 'Near the turn of the century God raised up Godly men in Ireland and Scotland,' Wulf acknowledged. 'We respect them and what they established. But we don't hold to that history and line of succession.' Added Kennedy, a worker spokesman, 'Now we're not following these men, but the New Testament fellowship.'"

• "Ireland is the only country where workers weren't imported, but rather exported." Letter of Sydney Holt, June 27, 1985

• "Some have asked about the beginning of this way. In 1897, there were two workers that came to Ireland." With that, he dropped the subject. Dan Sherick, Boyden, IA Conv, Sept 8-11, 1995. (Statement contains a contradiction)

• "As near as I can figure, since there are no church records in recent times, the truth came from England at the turn of the century." Jill Christiansen, Santee conv. 1980.

• Iowa gospel meeting, 1995: "We cannot trace this back through the ages! and that is good, for if we could, that would destroy our faith."

• "Lewis (William) says there is no one founder or group of founders that this church...can trace its lineage to. 'Not to my knowledge,' Lewis says. 'We don't treat genealogical records as being purposeful. What would it mean to me if I could prove I'm a descendant of Abraham?'" quote of William Lewis, The Sunday Sun, Georgetown, Texas, July 14, 1991.

• "Many men have started many different religions, but this faith that we believe in--we don't know who started it. But keep yourselves sanctified so that if anyone should question you concerning this faith, that you can give them the right answers." Gilbert Richter, 1990 Seneca, IL conv

• "It all happened over 100 years ago, how could it matter now?"

• "The history of this fellowship isn't doctrine."

• "What difference does it make?"

• "It isn't relevant today."

• "Now why are you worrying about that? You don't need to concern yourself about that at all."

• Well, everything has to begin sometime....

• "So what if the truth came from Greece, Italy or Macedonia to England. What does it matter, the fact is it came, and we are ever so grateful. Why would I waste precious time pondering where they came from and how?"

• "You sound rather disturbed about something to do with a man called William Irvine. I do believe he served God in sincerity and truth at one time. What happened I've never asked because our life doesn't really revolve round any person but around Jesus. We feel sad at heart if any lose out because it's eternal life that's our goal and we are anxious to reach that goal and help others to reach it too. We heard at our Sp. Mtgs. we will all finish but will we all reach the goal? Searching my own heart. You mentioned being "brave and honest"--hard to grasp what you mean. Even though David knew all the 'ins and outs' of Saul he never once tried to expose him - even if we knew all about others (which I don't and never likely to) I don't think it would be kind to keep talking. Of course, the soul you mentioned is gone & the judge of all the earth will do right by all but I'm sure your faith isn't built on the rights or wrongs of men but the simple right or truth in Jesus. We heard at convention about faith - God's word - God said it, we believe it and that settles it - gives us a wonderful peace. Glad this is really how I feel. What we rest our hope on is what God said - what God pointed us to. This settles it once and for all and it brings a great peace. We have enjoyed very special times at Conventions and everything to reassure our hearts that God is here amongst his people. We feel so privileged to know and see what has been revealed to us and this revelation is a rock to us that the very gates of hell won't prevail against. I hope you will understand what I'm trying to say. I don't know what you really want me to say but be assured of this I'm not trying to evade anything - but neither can I feel justified in condemning any, especially those who are long since gone and know so little about...I do hope this will help to put your mind and heart at rest. Don't worry needlessly about things really that don't come into this matter of our salvation. We have all to work out our own with fear & trembling & this Paul tells us comes about through letting God work in us the good pleasure of His will...Keep your faith strong in the man Christ Jesus. Tests will come but we must hold fast to what we have attained. I'm thankful I love God, love Jesus, love the family of God, love his will - don't feel worthy but thankful to have a part in what is eternal." Helen Phimister (Scotland Worker), Letter dated June 15, 1995

• "It doesn't really matter. All that matters is that we are building on the same foundation as Christ, and we know we are." Lorraine Lerwick

• "The origin makes no difference because the Spirit of God can do anything," said Harold Silvernail, Milltown, WA convention ground owner in Milltown Herald (article 8/17/-83).

• "Don't worry about tracing the truth back. The Jews could trace to Abraham and it didn't mean a thing. God can raise up people from stones...we don't need to trace it back. When we see God's work in people, we know is it from him." Arnold Brown, Sept., 1988 York, NEB conv. In direct contradiction to what he said above, William Lewis also said, "Since early workers followed a Scottish preacher in Ireland before the turn of the 20th century, they have spent their lives traveling from home to home with little more than their clothes, Lewis said." Quoted from in the Minneapolis Star Tribune 11/2-/86. William Lewis stated in personal interview that he does not preach that one must hear two workers in this fellowship to be saved.

• "Irvine's founding role is of little consequence, for we alone follow the true pattern of the original apostles, and the early church." Gordon McNabb (SS)

• Jack Price said that when he was young an old trustworthy worker told him to not let anyone ever tell him that William Irvine started this way because it wasn't true. And Jack went on to say that he has never believed it since.

• "This way started in Galilee." Ned Manning, worker-Irish descent.

• "We did not start this Jesus way...it was started and planned by God before we were ever thought of, and if you go any other way you will go to hell." E. Cooney Impartial Reporter 8/5/09

• Frank Porter, 1995: "This is NOT made by a man! So get that out of your head!"

• "We are not starting a new religion. We are earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the saints and trying to separate it from the traditions of men, because there is not a doctrine in the word of God that has not been corrupted by the professing church." Within Impartial Reporter 10/7/09; Patricia Roberts in her book THE LIFE AND MINISTRY OF EDWARD COONEY Page 79

• "In your letter you ask for information & knowledge of William Irvine. This is now/not common knowledge no one talks about these/those days. We are very glad to go back to Jesus and His simple teaching, which is good as John wrote to keep to what is from the beginning. There is so much in the world to confuse one, and we need the help & guidance of the Spirit, which Jesus said He will lead you into all Truth." Dennis Fenton (England Worker), Letter dated May 11, 1995.

• "We are often asked who started this church? Heb. 12:2 'Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith...' Jesus gave us God's eternal plan of salvation in its fullness. He is both the author and finisher." Dan Hilton 1/1/84 Burlington, WA Sp. Mtg. Note: Used Strawman Fallacy. "Our faith" in Christ is a different thing entirely from "this church" which the question concerned."

• "Jesus Himself set us up. Whether it was planted in the first century, the 10th century, or the 20th century, the message is the same, it produces the same thing." Tharold Sylvester, The Bellingham, WA Herald 8/20/83.

• "We believe we have existed since Jesus sent forth the 70 disciples two by two." Richard Sullivan, 1943

• "We are not following some way founded in the early 1900's, but it goes clear back to Christ." Tharold Sylvester 11/16/83

• "You can tell whether a church is a false church or not if it was started by a man or woman. We are the only church on earth that was started by Christ." Jack Carroll

• "We aren't believing in a religion. We are believing in a life. The life of God and His Son...Everything that is false has a definite origin--a man who started it. Wesley started the Methodist; Joseph Smith started the Mormons; Mary Baker Eddy started the Christian Scientist. This is the only way that was started by Christ." Willie Jamieson, Post Falls Conv., 1957.

• "...not by William Irvine, but rather by many men getting together and deciding to really follow the New Testament teaching of Jesus." William Peterson.

• "We know that it began with a group of men in the British Isles around the turn of the century. That's as far as we have been able to trace it." Walter Pollock, Spokesman Review, 6/5/83

• In 1984, in the Coeur d'Alene Press, Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, Walter Pollock is quoted as saying, "The church was formed at the turn of the century in Great Britain. A number of people in England, Scotland, and Ireland discovered they were missing something spiritually...the Lord brought them together, and they found they saw eye to eye on the ministry."

• "It was started by a group of men and women in the British Isles at the turn of the cen-tury." 1941 George Walker

• "Often we are asked who started our fellowship, our doctrine, ministry? We are not interested in tracing personalities. Some say this way started with Jesus, but it began earlier. It began with God, He gave Jesus the Gospel, the Doctrine. As thou has sent me so have I sent them--the same way--God started it all, its the foundation on which we stand." Ken Pagington September 22, 1996, Durban

• "Was William Irvine the first in the way?" "I don't know. I think he was amongst the first...""So you would confirm that the way only goes back...""No...I believe it was started from God back in the very beginning of time. And between Malachi and Matthew there is no record of God's people, you might say, but I don't feel God's Way was ever done away with. I feel that God has had a way on the earth since before the foundation of the earth. I don't believe William Irvine is the beginner of it." "Do you know of anyone prior to him?" "No, I don't." (Visit with Bea Moonkini, 1985)

• "In answer to your question, "Where did this religion actually begin? Was it with Jesus as we have always been told in Gospel Meetings, or by a man named William Irvine in 1897? We believe Hebrews 12:2 'Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.' I would like to give you some references that mean a lot to me as we carry the gospel to people and point them to something that is from the beginning and not to something begun by man. In John 17:5 Jesus spoke of the glory which He had with the Father before the world was, and in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word", etc. So there is no date for the starting, as it was with the Heavenly Father before the world. Why would we want something started by a man when we have in the scripture something that is from the beginning and scripture to back it up?" Doris Bloemker letter, 1989. (Note: Fallacy of the strawman used. Proof was given for when the Word and the glory Jesus had with the Father started. This information is totally irrelevant to the question asked in the first two sentences.)

• "We're simply a continuation of the author of Truth." Harry Brownlee quote in The Sentinel, Cottage Grove, Oregon 8/16/79.

• "We go back to the beginning." Calvin Casselman, Boring conv. 1988

• "It's from the beginning, planned in God's mind before creation." Walter Nelson, Post Falls Conv. 1967

• Willis Propp: April, 1992 in conversation with exiting friends: "The scripture teaches that God's way began in eternity. The Lord possessed me, speaking of Jesus, in the beginning of His way before His works were. That's what's began, _____. One of the simplest answers that I can give is that it began when 2 and 2 became 4...That's right. It began with God and it has always been, 2 and 2 have always been 4. And I could go back in my experience, maybe for when I first knew that 2 and 2 was 4, but that's not when 2 and 2 became 4. And I could go back in my mother's experience when it likely first became aware to her that 2 and 2 was 4, but that wasn't when it became 4. So we can go back and we don't have to trace it generation to generation back to the beginning. The fact that we find 2 and 2, 4 today helps me to appreciate that it was in the beginning."

• "People ask us often times, 'Where did this doctrine start?' It first came to us over 60 years ago. I thought it started in Canada, because the one that brought the gospel to us was from Canada. We had never heard of it before, and we enquired of him, "Where did you hear this?" He said, 'We heard it from someone that came from Ireland or Scotland.' We listened to that Gospel. 'Where did it start?' It started in Heaven, and we are thankful that this Truth came from Heaven that we have accepted today." Clarence Anderson, Pukekohe Conv., New Zealand, 1986.

• "I consider that we are the most privileged people in all the world for the simple reason that what we believe and stand for and teach doesn't have its origin with man. You don't go back into the history of the world to find it. You have to go back to the beginning and to God. God had this plan in his heart and mind before the foundation of the world was laid. This way of service is from the beginning." Arthur Boyce, Silverdale BC Conv., 1961.

• Letter: "Then we are sometimes asked, 'Why don't you speak of older ministers of the faith of Jesus in past generations?' God's answer to this questions is found in 2 Cor. 4:5, 'For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your servants for Jesus sake.' So, it is not the will of God for us to be preaching about ministers of past generations. We preach Christ." Dan Hilton 1/1/84 Burlington, WA Sp. Mtg.

• "Also we are sometimes asked about the period between...the first century and the present twentieth century. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. We have no written records on earth of God's work in the world during this period. God's records are written in heaven, Malachi 3:16, Luke 10:20, Rev. 20:12. Any who would suggest a written genealogy record is necessary between the first and twentieth century would fall into the category of 1 Tim. 1:3-4. 'that thou might charge some that they teach no other doctrine. Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.'" Dan Hilton 1/1/84 Burlington, WA Sp. Mtg. { Note: The history of this fellowship is only 99 years old, hardly qualifying it as "endless genealogy."}

• "However, irregardless of a written record being preserved, truth is truth. If nobody believes it and/or...if everybody believes it...Whether or not a thing is believed in has nothing to do with its correctness. To use a parable illustration, the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. That is an established fact of existence. Whether or not people believe the sun rises in the east and sets in the west...in no way changes that established fact of reality... Everybody could believe the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, but this would not make it true. For anyone to say that what the Bible teaches was started at some certain year since the first century is pitiful ignorance, and closing the eyes to established facts and truths. The teachings of the New Testament were started in the first century when God's dear Son was here on earth; that is, those truths were established in a group of believers then. But that is not where it started. What was given by God through his Son was planned before the world began. See Matt 15:34-35, John 17:24, Acts 3:20-21, Rom. 16:25-26, 1 Cor 2:7, Eph 1:4-5, 2 Tim. 1:0, Titus 1:2, 1 Peter 1:18-21. These truths make very clear that what God...the Son of God...and the Holy Spirit believe in, and what God's true ministers and Christians believed in, was planned in the heart and mind of God before the world began, and we believe the same today. So it is 100% false for anyone to say that what we believe was started in some recent year." Dan Hilton, Letter 11/21/89, End of Letter

• Woman asked one of the older brother workers if he had heard of Wm Irvine. The worker: "Well, I don't think I can talk about him..." The woman: "Well, have you heard of him or haven't you?" The worker: "I can't hear you very well, my hearing is getting so bad."

• "I advise you to drop your investigation." Edward Blair

• Some have asked when this way first got started. I don't know the answer to that. All I know is that in my family it started in 1904, when X and X came...Harry Brownlee, Hunter, ND conv., 1995

• "Yes, seems like I heard some story like that a long time ago." Delaware brother worker

• How did the first worker get saved? He replied "That's a good question."

• There was no reason to tell you! Why would we tell you something like that. It is a matter of faith.

• "I am not answering these questions, because I don't believe to do so would profit you. 80 years ago I decided to go forth and preach as Jesus sent the Apostles...I find it more profitable to exercise my mind to seek to abide in Jesus, as said in John 15, rather than tracing the origin of the little streams that made up the river which we have enjoyed travelling on." George Walker letter dated November 27, 1979.

• "It was before my time, (Ben) Klepzig says, 'No one here claims to have started it.'" Owner of Georgetown, Texas, convention grounds, The Sunday Sun, Georgetown, Texas July 14, 1991.

• "Personally, I have never been taken up with endless genealogies, or other things that Paul warned against in I Tim. 1:3-4. My satisfaction is in the fact that the Lord has given to me all that he has promised." Howard Mooney

• "And even if all that he (Doug Parker) dug out of the graves of our 60 year history was true: would that justify exhumnation?" Alfred Magowan in Testimony of a Witness for the Defence 1/13/56.

• "Don't you believe that something so precious to God could be preserved and passed on thru his beloved mouthpieces over any age and time?? God's Way is ETERNAL!" Canadian sister worker Cheryl Lumley to Mitchells.

• "I always say, don't criticize unless you have something better to offer. I haven't heard that they have anything better to offer." Mary Hasper, Bellingham Herald.

• "It is true Irvine's mind did go bad. Did that change God's way? Would you expect a man's prophecies to come to pass who was mentally unbalanced? Would you call a man a false prophet who had the misfortune of losing his mind?" William Peterson

• "Some say that God's truth was revived or started over or began in the early 1900's. This serpent raises its ugly head periodically." Sherlene Oldham, Ex-worker, Letter 1991.

• "It's dangerous to question the history of God's true way. It's the sin of presumption--blasphemy, because it's doubting the Holy Spirit."

• "No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62)

• "The Scripture says God's kingdom is a mystery."

• "Don't dig up old things because they cause nothing but grief."

• "Jesus wants the past to be the past."

• "I don't see why anyone needs to know about it. What good will it do them?"

• DIVERSION: "YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT? I DID. HOW ODD!!"

• "Forget the past."

• "I don't regard it as hidden information. I've known about it for years--what makes you think it has been hidden?" Jim Price, 1990

• "I have been aware of William Irvine's life and fall from truth since a child. This has been proof to me that this fellowship is greater than any man or group of men. It also upholds the integrity of the early workers as they rejected William Irvine and Ed Cooney."

• Oh, I've known about that for a long time. Some preach a lineage back to Christ, but that's ludicrous. Randy Satterfield, 1996

• Jack Price said that he believed the "way" sprang upagain around the turn of the century, that godly men were moved by the HolySpirit to get together and restart (?) the way.

• 1979: Elder worker preached at Olympia convention that "ever so often the "truth" dies out, and God seeks for another man to bring it back into the world." (Pat Hockett)

• 1979: Elder worker preached at Olympia convention that "ever so often the "truth" dies out, and God seeks for another man to bring it back into the world." (Pat Hockett) In 1984 Donald Karnes wrote from Germany: "Two outstanding events mark the 20th century: 2 rebirths. First, the rebirth of the Truth. God pouring out His spirit upon all flesh. The resurgence of His work in the world. Elizer (the servant) was commissioned to seek a Bride. The Gospel call: Prepare to meet the Bridegroom. Make ready for the marriage. Second: the rebirth of the Jewish national out of the ruin heaps of Europe. These two events are going on at the same time. "

• "I never met Wm Irvine at any time and believe he was used of God, but was never the origin of what we believe. I understand he became too big in himself and left the fellowship we love. Workers I know and respect preach only what Jesus lived and taught with no mention at all of Wm Irvine or any other man save only real appreciation for those who retell in our day things taught in Jesus day. This faith began in New Testament days, not in Ireland nor in the U.K." Roddy MacLean (Scotland Worker) Letter dated June 1, 1995

• William Irvine did not start the church, it is from the beginning, and the way was just made evident to him then. Karen Tenniswood '96

• First of all, I will tell you what I teach. I tell people that the Faith is a continuation of New Testament days. The word continuation means two things. It can mean there is no break and it also means a break in time no matter how long the break is, if you return to the same thing. We have what was in existence 2,000 years ago. I believe there was a break between N.T. times & today, but the same word & work has been revived. A wheat seed can remain on the shelf for 1,000 years and then be planted & grow & it will produce wheat.If someone said there was a continual apostolic succession I doubt if that is accurate, but their statement does not change my salvation and relationship with God. Even if a person lied, that would have nothing to do with the Truth or our salvation. Truth does not have to be in people (although hopefully it always is) because it is in God & in Christ & in his eternal word. In Ps 11:3, if foundations are destroyed, the righteous would have nothing to build on. The temple of Solomon had huge foundation stones laid under the surface & the temple was later burned but likely the foundation stones were still there when the temple was rebuilt in the book of Ezra. We know where to build today because Christ laid the foundation stones & they are still there. - Everett Swanson communication by letter with exiting "friend." 1995

• In 1988, Willie Pollock stated at the Glenn Valley, British Columbia convention: "There has NOT been a continuity from Jesus time until now, but we feel there was a stump left somewhere--but today, there is a tree. God's work may have to go underground again, but there is a tree of fellowship today."

• In 1988, at Gilroy #1, Willie Pollock said: "I don't want to drop a bombshell on you by saying this--but there has not always been a tree--not even in the Bible. But we believe that somewhere there has always been a root, a stump of Truth. We can't explain it. By faith, we accept it. If we need too much explanation, we don't have faith. During the time of the captivity, there was no tree--no true worship and sacrifice. But Daniel prayed toward Jerusalem like a stump. We don't read of any tree during the period of time between the Old and New Testaments, but when Jesus came, we read of six people. It sprouted again. In our day, there is a tree that is flourishing."

• "The way is like a seed, like the wheat seed. It was created at the beginning of the world." Dan Hilton.

• "Look at it like this. I have no idea who my great-great-grandfather was, but I know that he had to exist, because here I am today. We know how life begets life and it is the same spiritually. I do not believe in some form of apostolic succession--that would be like the Catholic church. People might build their faith on that, but I would like to believe that the friends and ministry did come down through history that way. " Eldon Kendrew in personal visit with Mitchells 6/4/95

• "It's like a seed. No, better yet, it's like your great-grandmother's recipe. You are looking through your great-grandmother's recipe box and you find a recipe for what you think is a cake that she used to always make that was just wonderful and you wonder, "Is this the one?" So you make it and YES! It tastes just exactly the same. It doesn't matter if the recipe has been lost in the box for years and years; you know that it is the recipe for the same cake because it tastes the same." Eldon Kendrew in personal visit with Mitchells 6/4/95

• David Leonhardt: "Oh, no, this way didn't start 95 year ago. It started in the very heart of God." Personal communication, summer 1996

• "If it could be proven to me in black and white that this church was started by a man, I would never preach another word." Harry Brownlee in many gospel meetings.

• In August 1990, Harry Brownlee stated that the way is NOT of apostolic succession. (The converse of this statement is the admission of an earthly originator.) Conversation in Home of Cherie Kropp 8/90

• Reply letter written by the overseer worker in Malaysia in 1992:

I do not intend to go into lengths about these books written that have from time to time disturbed some of God's people. My parents learned the Gospel in Australia in1908. One of the Workers was from Ireland......When we claim that God's way is from the beginning, where should we start & when. Not in the 20th century or the10th century but in heaven.....Abel worshipped in the right way....God revealed His way to Abraham and he walked in it....Jacob saw God's way clearly & walked in it & so right down through time. This does not mean that in every age people walked in God's way but the Way was there for those who were willing. Many times in Judges we read these words "God raised up" revealed through men His way and this has happened until the day we live in! That satisfies me. These men writing are just trying to say that God's way is only a Sect. What is a Sect? A section apart & they would like to make folks believe that it began in the end of 1800. They say "No Name". By what name was the Way of God known in Paul's day. How does he write about it. The Way This Way That way Acts 11:26.....

THE PROPHETS WERE CALLED & CHOSEN BY GOD:

A person did not volunteer to be a prophet--prophets were hand-picked by God. For the prophecy came NOT in old time BY THE WILL OF MAN: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost, 2 Pet 1:21. I was no prophet, neither was I a prophet's son; but I was an herdman, and a gatherer of sycamore fruit...-and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel...Amos 7:14-15. It was such a memorable event when God chose and approached the proph-et-to-be, that many wrote about it: ...the word of the LORD which came: to Samuel, to Ezekiel, to Hosea, to Joel, to Jonah, to Micah, to Zephaniah; to Haggai, to Zechariah. (Also Jer 14:14; 23:21).

THE PROPHETS WERE SPOKESMEN FOR GOD:

The prophets were God's mouthpieces; messengers God called and sent with His messages. God communicated through them. I do send thee unto them; and thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD... Eze 2:4. Over 900 times in the Bible, the prophets introduced God's messages with: Thus saith the Lord... God literally put His words in His prophets' mouths...the LORD said... thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak...-Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth, Jer 1:7-9. And the LORD said unto him, Who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD? Now therefore go, and I (God) will be with thy (Moses) mouth, and teach thee what thou shalt say, Ex 4:11-12. (Also Deut 18:19; Is 51:15-16; Eze 3:10-11; Mark 13:10-11; Acts 3:21

THE PROPHETS WERE CONFIRMED BY SIGNS & WONDERS:

The Israelites knew that God ALONE doeth great wonders... Ps 136:4. The prophets' messages were accompanied by miracles, tokens, signs and wonders. And Isaiah said, This sign shalt thou have of the LORD, that the LORD will do the thing that he hath spoken: shall the shadow go forward ten degrees, or go back ten degrees? 2 Kgs 20:9. Signs also accompanied the apostles' messages...they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following, Mark 16:19-20. (Also John 6:29-31; Acts 2:22, 5:12, 2 Cor 12:-12; Ex 4:17; Jos 3:7; Dan 6:27) God didn't leave any room to doubt whether or not a prophet was truly HIS prophet. Their credentials were far from dubious. For if the trumpet (prophet?) give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? 1 Cor 14:8.

THE PROPHETS WERE RECEIVERS OF REVELATIONS:

...I the LORD will make myself known unto him (the prophet) in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream, Num 12:6. God disclosed revelations to the prophets, who were both foretellers and forthtellers.

THE PROPHETS WERE DELIVERERS OF PROPHECY:

Prophecy starts with a revelation. When an event came to pass that a prophet had predicted, it established a true prophet's reputation. And when this cometh to pass...then shall they know that a prophet hath been among them, Eze 33:33, 2:5. Fulfilled prophecy not only validated the messenger, but also proved its source and originator was God...and when this cometh, ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD, Eze 24:-24, Ex 10:2. (Also Ex 6:7, 9:29; 1 Kgs 18-:39, Eze 6:-10, 37:-14).

THE PROPHETS WERE KNOWN BY THEIR FRUIT:

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree can not bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit, Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mat 7:16-20

Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? Can the fig tree...bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. Jas 3:11-12

THE PROPHETS' WORDS AGREED WITH WRITTEN SCRIPTURE:

A prophet's words spoken in the name of the Lord never conflicted with the Scripture.

To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them, Is 8:20.

And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written... Acts 15:15; (see also 2 Pet 3:2).

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation, 2 Pet 1:20.

THE PROPHETS AUTHORITY WAS GIVEN BY GOD:

Disaster fell on those who dared to murmur at God's prophets...wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses? Num 12:8. When Korah and his men rose up against Moses and Aaron, the Lord left no doubt WHO gave Moses and Aaron their authority and anointing when Aaron's rod budded; and Korah and all his men were annihilated when the earth opened...and swallowed them up, and their houses...and all their goods...went down alive into the pit...and they perished from among the congregation, Num 16:1-50. The prophets' authority came from God, and clearly, it doesn't pay to trifle with God's chosen prophets!

THE PROPHETS WERE WISE & ACCURATE:

True prophets' reputations were established partly by their perfect accuracy. Behold now, there is in this city a man of God, (prophet) and he is an honorable man; ALL that he saith cometh surely to pass, 1 Sam 9:6. ALL the predictions, curses, blessings of a true prophet ALWAYS came to pass. How could it be otherwise? God initiated the prophet's message, and God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? Num 23:19. The message validated the messenger of God. For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist, Luke 21:15.

SOME PROPHETS WERE FALSE PROPHETS:

Only a false prophet can speak lies in the name of the Lord, for God controlled His true prophet's mouth, mind, words, messages, actions for their entire life. Thus saith the Lord...that confir-meth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers.-.. Is 44:24-26. Know now that there shall fall unto the earth NOTHING of the word of the LORD...for the LORD hath done that which he spake by his servant Elijah, 2 Kgs 10:10.

It only took one false prophecy to sentence a false prophet to death (Deut 13:5, 18:20) Hearken NOT unto the words of the (false) prophets...they speak a vision of their own heart, and NOT out of the mouth of the Lord...I sent them not, nor commanded them; therefore, they (false prophets) shall not profit this people AT ALL, Jer 23:16, 32.

...prophesy against the proph-ets of Israel that prophesy...out of their own hearts...Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!...They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope... Therefore...Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies ...I am against you...Eze 13:1-13.

THE PROPHET'S TEST:

The Israelites asked in Deut 18:2-1-2-2: How may we know the word which the Lord has NOT spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously. The test of time proved a prophet. A true prophet made only 100% accurate statements and predictions.

Jeremiah and Isaiah prophesied of a time when God would not instruct his children through prophets, Jer 31:33-34, Is 30:20-21; a time when God would cease to use prophets as mediators: For there is one God and ONE mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 1 Tim 2:5. In the transition period between the Old and New Covenants, prophets and apostles helped to establish and confirm the New with signs, miracles and wonders. Prophets and gifts ceased (1 Cor 13:8) after the faith had been delivered (past tense), once for all, an event completed in the past which never needs to be repeated, Jude 3; and after All things that pertain to life and godliness (2 Pet 1:3) regarding the doctrine of Christ were given (2 John 9). God, who at sundry (various) times and in divers (diverse) ma-ners spake IN TIME PAST unto the fathers by the prophets, hath in these last days spoken unto us by His Son, Heb 1:1-2 (Also Mat 11:13, Luke 16:-16). After these things, the time had passed when God spoke through prophets. He has NOW spoken through Christ Jesus was God's final Word. Since then, God has not given any new, additional or further revelation that is not found in the Bible. NOW, the only reliable source for the doctrine of Christ is the Bible: The Scrip-ture is able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus, 2 Tim 3:15. The Scripture is sufficient, for in it ALL the counsel of God is declared, Acts 20:27. God ceased to use prophets, and the Holy Spirit began to guide and teach God's children, individually (Heb 10:16).

Now, Christ is the head of the Church. Though the Church will be persecuted, it is prophesied that it will survive and triumph over ALL the powers that rise against it; and that ...the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, Mat 16:18. It is impossible for God's true church to be exterminated. The church will endure until Jesus returns. According to the Scripture, God's truth and way has never skipped a generation, has always been upon the earth and His name and truth will be remembered by ALL generations. My righteousness shall be forever, and my salvation from gen-eration to generation, Is 51:8. (Also Ps 33:11, 72:5, 79:1-3, 90:1, 100:5, 106-:31, 11-9:89--90, 135:-13, 146:-10; Luke 1:48--50, 1 Pet. 1:23) Therwfore, it was existing on the earth at the turn of this century when Wm Irvine founded his movement. The Bible cautions against those who are allegedly "raised up" for ...of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them; therefore watch, Acts 20:30. And many false prophets shall arise and shall deceive many, Mat 24:1-1.

Around 1897, it occurred to a Scotsman named William Irvine that possibly God intended for Jesus' instructions to the disciples in Matthew 10 to extend to all preachers for all time. (Jesus changed these in Luke 22:35-36). To try out his theory, Irvine and a few others made some experimental missions without prearranging financial support. By their standards, the ventures were successful. Irvine began to develop his own independent ministry, although at that time he was a pilgrim worker with the Faith Mission of Scotland. He officially separated from the Faith Mission in 1901. Irvine copied many of the Faith Mission methods, traditions and nomenclature, duplicating their homeless, itinerant workers who preached in pairs solely on faith, used baches, had conventions, meetings, women preachers who wore black stockings, did not take colllections or ask for money. He also used some Faith Mission religious jargon, i.e. professing, workers, missions, fields, the work, harvest field.

Gradually, others volunteered to join his ministry, including George Walker, Jack Carroll and Ed Cooney. In 1903, they held their first convention in Rathmolyon, Ireland. Soon the movement went world-wide. Many of his followers felt certain Irvine had been raised up and used by God to restore the New Testament ministry. Some of them concluded they were God's only true ministers because they believed the Matthew 10 instructions were not rescinded and were still applicable to preachers of the gospel; and because they saw themselves as the only ones who were truly following the New Testament pattern for ministers.

By 1904, Irvine's brainstorm and experiment to originate the fellowship and ministry now commonly called "the truth" was looked upon as a revelation from God. Those who receive revelations from God are God's Prophets; therefore, William Irvine was a prophet. It was made mandatory that all workers believe and teach that eternal life could only be obtained through (1) hearing, believing and professing through Irvine or a worker who professed through him and (2) following the way Irvine started. [Who did Irvine profess through? Presbyterian minis-ter, Rev. John McNeill.] At first, all converts became workers. The "saints" position was created later and church meetings in the homes were established. These early religious methods William Irvine conceived and originated were known as his "Alpha Gospel."

It was less than 100 years ago that these Go-Preachers, as some called them, created no small stir around the Ireland countryside. Their activities were particularly well reported upon by the newspaper (The Im-partial R-porter and Farmers Journal) of the Northern Ireland town of Enniskillen, situated near Crocknacrieve, the location of the first large annual conventions. (See also the book, The Secret Sect by Doug & Helen Parker.)

Irvine claimed he received further revelation, which he called his "Omega Gospel." He believed he had been divinely appointed to bring Jesus' last message to the world before the end came. He predicted the end would be on August 14, 1914, with the only survivors being the friends and workers who would endure a great worldwide famine; and that he would be one of the two Witnesses in Rev 11:1-11 that John prophesied would be killed and rise again on the third day. (Even though Jesus said: But of that day and hour NO MAN knoweth...but my Father only Mat 24:36.)

Initially, Irvine's principal workers felt certain that his "Alpha Gospel to originate the "the Jesus way" was a "restoration" of God's Scriptural pattern for ministers, and believed that his ministry and fellowship was the only true New Tes-tament church. Originally, they believed Irvine was "highly favored" and "used" by God," and they were certain his "Alpha Gospel" was a revelation to introduce religious methods which were ordained by God. However, they did not view his "Omega Gospel" in this same light...far from it!

August, 1914, came and with it World War I--but not Jesus. The leading workers decided Irvine was "no longer being guided by the Spirit of God." Ed Cooney and Jack Carroll reportedly used the explanation: "Irvine's fall was similar to that of SAUL, who lost his anointing." Consequently, the workers no longer felt obligated to submit to him. In 1914, Irvine was ousted from his position as leader; his "king-dom" was divided among his closest friends, who took control of various areas: George Walker claimed Eastern USA; Jack Carroll took Western USA; John Hardy and Bill Carroll took Australia; Wilson McClung-New Zealand; Wilson Reid-England, etc.

In a letter to William Carroll, Wm. Irvine wrote, "I was rejected and despised and cast out to die; my birthright being divided amongst my children and enemies. The Jesus Way was stolen, confiscated and misappropriated...taken over in my presence...I am the victim of heel-bruisers." The reasons given now as to what happened to Wm Irvine are numerous. The most common are: (1) Irvine became arrogant, proud, got too big within himself; (2) Irvine had a problem in the line of women; was a womanizer (3) Irvine became mentally unstable; lost his mind; got off track. Of his personality, it was reported that he had a hot temper, was often arrogant, boastful, scornful and abrasive. That his actions often lacked consideration, mercy and kindness. That he harshly criticized some workers publicly. That he exercised rigid control and showed partiality. That he allegedly indulged in sexual immorality, and in general, lived a more indulgent life than he permitted other workers. His weakness for women was compared to Samson with Delilah; David with Bathsheba. Possibly, these "reasons" are trumped up charges by some who resented his control and wanted to take over. Without any firsthand witnesses, the real reason(s) may never be determined for sure. In 1918, Irvine went to Jerusalem to be on hand when Jesus returned. He lived there for over 30 years, supported by followers who remained loyal to him. His death in 1947 at the age of 84 was due to throat cancer. Obviously, he left behind a number of unfulfilled prophecies.

• IF Irvine was truly a prophet sent by God ousted by the workers, then God must be very, very angry. The audacity of mere men to "uncall" a prophet of God! How could they have DARED to cancel Irvine's calling, to debar, disfellowship, excommunicate him...??? Remember what happened to Korah and his men who attempted this very same thing with Moses!

• IF Irvine was a true prophet of God, how could the workers even THINK of touching the Lord's anointed? How did they have the nerve to expel him from the very fellowship he supposedly founded at God's direction? To reject and expel him from what God supposedly called him to start?? To substitute themselves in his place??

• IF Irvine was truly a prophet called by God, who have you been following? The wrong men? The wrong group?

• IF God's true church cannot be exterminated, how could it possibly need restoring?

• IF God's way needed restoring, the founder of Faith Mission beat Irvine to it.

Lost his mind? 
Failed God's test for a prophet?
First gave true prophecies and later gave false prophesies? 
Was right part of the time and wrong part of the time? 
Of dubious qualifications delivered God's message?

God's truth or church will die out? 
God's true church will resurface, re-emerge, restart, be revived or restored again? 
A man, men or prophet(s) will be raised up to restore God's true way?

What credentials of a true prophet did he have?
What miracles confirmed he was a prophet?
What fruit did he have to recommend him?
What predictions of his were fulfilled? Unfilled?

I find no evidence that there was any group existing before William Irvine started the movement he founded.

I believe the Bible is God's Word and that God's Word is absolutely true; that God cannot lie. The Bible says Jesus is the Way, THE TRUTH and the Life. It also states GOD'S Truth will never die out. If Jesus cannot lie and He said I AM THE TRUTH--then He cannot die--HE is ALIVE. JESUS (who IS THE TRUTH) is alive. He is the Great I am. He cannot die. JESUS IS THE TRUTH, and THE ONLY TRUTH. THERE IS no other TRUTH, other than our Christ, our Savior and our God.

When someone plagiarizes a book or chapter, they take the words from the book and act as if they were the author of them. They steal them. It is plagiarizing the Bible to take the Words of God and Jesus concerning His Truth (which TRUTH was Jesus HIMSELF and all that was wrapped up in the meaning of His life, death, and resurrection) and to apply it to a belief system/method that was started by William Irvine a little over 100 years ago, nicknamed "The Truth".

It is Equivocation--not Truth! Equivocation is to take the meaning of one thing and to apply it to something else for which it was never intended. Salvation is NOT by Equivocation. The real TRUTH is not arrived at by Equivocation. One MUST make sure that their definition and the definition the Biblical author intended are the same, in order to understand correctly God's Word. Therefore, Jesus is Jesus Christ, the Son of God--NOT a system. He is CHRIST and CHRIST only--not a system or way of worship. Jesus Christ is The Truth, the Son of God.

Some ask why are you so hung up on William Irvine, who was just a worker who went bad? Why do you dwell so on the negative side? Would you like someone to point out your faults? Why not look at the positive side of the 2x2 method?

To which I reply, Why shouldn't we scrutinize Wm Irvine? Some maintain that William Irvine was a prophet--and we are surely instructed to scrutinize the prophets, lest they be false and we be led astray.

There is a POSITIVE side to learning about William Irvine starting this way a little over 100 years ago. Now, we don't HAVE to stay in his man-made way to get to Heaven. We won't go to hell if we leave his method--many of us find that VERY positive. We can read and choose. Having a founder means the 2x2 method is just another man-made way--among other man-made ways, and that the 2x2 fellowship and ministry cannot be God's ONLY true way on earth today. And many of us have found by comparison, that it's not even superior to other ways! Looking at the 2x2 system closely has shown many of us that there are many aspects that do not have to be the way they are--that the "so-called perfect way" could surely stand some improving.

The workers' way isn't God's way--God's Way was sending Jesus to us. And this 2x2 way that some feel so strongly about is just a man's way, because the ONLY WAY is Jesus HIMSELF-a PERSON--not a METHOD! Actually, in many areas, many of the "worldly" churches follow the scripture more closely than the man-made 2x2 fellowship.

Learning about William Irvine HAS had a VERY POSITIVE effect on many of our lives, as has learning that we are saved by the Gift of God (Grace) through faith and not of ourselves and NOT by or through any man, men or man-made system. It is very positive to know that our salvation goes with us as individuals, regardless of what community of believers we choose to group ourselves with at any given time, and this has been true, since Christ walked this earth. There has been a continuing line of believers in Christ, each one of them REALLY believed HIM, just like Abraham, and it was accounted to them for righteousness' sake, just as it is today.

Just Telling The Truth as it is......Cherie