Irving Ross, overseer of Ohio & West Virginia, spoke in the Sunday morning meeting as follows:

The epistle, the general epistle it is called, the first general epistle that 
John wrote, the last two epistles that he wrote were more written to 
individuals that were specified in the opening verses of those of the second 
and third epistles, but this is a general one, this would be one that would be 
talking directly to the needs of all of Gods people, in that time and for our 
time too. 

This creates a beginning. For it is that which was from the beginning, which 
we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes,  which we have looked upon  
and our hands have handled, of the Word of Life, for the life was manifested  
and we have seen it and bare witness and show unto you that eternal life which 
was with the Father and was manifested unto us, that which we have seen, and 
heard , declare we unto you that you may have fellowship with us for truly our 
fellowship is with the Father and with his son Jesus Christ and  these things 
write we unto you that your joy might be full.

 He , he just settled different reasons in this epistle for writing it, like 
that, the primarily, primary purpose for writing it was to just give them a 
fresh understanding of the source of their hope, the foundation for their 
belief. That Psalm has come back to my mind again recently, the eleventh 
Psalm, where the Psalmist said, that his trust was in the Lord, and then the 
question was ask, it was like a voice coming from another source, why say ye 
to my soul, flee like a bird to your mountain. In the margin, his holy temple, 
it says, that the voice also said that the foundation of the righteous, if the 
foundation were destroyed, what would the righteous do?  And then it mentions 
the Lord is in his holy temple, and it says in the end of that Psalm, last 
words, end of this Psalm of David and that epistle, Psalm, for the Lord, the 
righteous Lord loveth righteousness, his countenance shall behold the upright. 
Now the rendering for that , it says the righteous shall see his face, it 
doesn’t make any difference what the voice says, why say ye to my soul, flee 
like a bird to your mountain. 

People might try to suggest that, that what you are believing is just another 
mountain. There is other mountains, other people are believing in,  but we are 
glad that the Psalmist said, now look to the mountain from which comes my 
help, a question mark. My help cometh from the Lord who made the heaven and 
earth. 

Our help is not in a man made order, an earthly mountain. Its origin, its, the 
roots of our faith, our belief are very clearly  seen and understood these 
days both by what we have heard, what we have seen, what we have felt, that, 
that they are in Jesus.  This writing of John, his epistles, and of course the 
book of Revelation, that was a revelation that God gave to his son Jesus 
Christ, it wasn’t a matter of new revelation you might say, some people are 
trusting in a Latter day revelation. The book of John is a revelation that God 
gave to his son Jesus Christ. The foundation of that revelation is Christ. And 
he came, sent it, and shared it by an angel, sent it by an angel to John, but 
it was not John’s revelation. It was the revelation of Jesus Christ, and we 
are glad today when we think about our hope, and we think about our confidence 
and our trust, that it is in Jesus. It appears that what is written over the, 
center column reference of my bible, that this epistle may have been written 
after 90 AD and a little latter that likely the book of Revelation. Now the 
latest by far, is we can understand that all the writings in our bible is the 
inspired word of God that has come to mean so much to us, and by the time John 
would have been writing, there would be a , a greater promise to experience 
and glorify him too, be several generations that had believed the gospel since 
the event of Jesus coming and resurrection. The gospel going into the four 
corners of the earth, directed by the Holy Ghost, there would have been seven 
generations that would have begun to believe and, and  receive a revelation of 
it. There were fathers, there were young men, there were other men , there 
were, there were , there were children and who  had seem to have a love for 
his commandments, and we are encouraged seeing generations of believing, young 
generation, being moved of God and called of God to go into the work, what 
really has inspired me lately, while reading the New Testament writing, I 
fully  believed that with the latest writing,  I do not believe at that time 
that those that had believed in Christ and were following him had any New 
Testament as their reference. We were hearing from the second epistle of Peter 
last evening and what Peter said in that first chapter of that second epistle 
when he was telling that  about the vision they had and that the , the voice 
they heard when the were in that , up in the mount and saw Jesus Christ 
transfigured and where he was telling about , they saw him as he would come 
again in his kingdom, in his power and his  glory and they heard that voice 
from the most High God, saying this is my son in whom I am well pleased. Peter 
just said, we were eye witnesses of that and before I die,  I want to bring 
you in remembrance of that , they didn’t have any written accounts of that,  
they did not have access to that. They had no access to any New Testament 
writing, other than  what was being written as a letter or an epistle to them 
that latter became what we know as part of the inspired Word of God of the New 
Testament, but , Peter at that time said, generally referred to the prophet 
and what they had saw,  and said, we have a more sure word of prophecy, or a 
translation I believe would be correct says, what we saw when we were up on 
the mountain make what we are reading about more sure. Prophets, what the 
prophets wrote about what we have access to as the writing that were it more 
sure. It wasn’t that they were not sure about it until then, I, I don’t think, 
hopefully not too many of us came that unsure about what we believe and what 
we believe in. But I do hope that when we go away, we go away more sure, we go 
away with, being more assured of the thing that we have already been assured 
of. More confident of the thing that we have already, have already had 
confidence in.  We are glad in the meeting we have been reminded of the 
foundation of our hope and that it is founded upon his life. That hymn that we 
were singing, speaking about the city of the, the new, the new city, The, the  
Heavenly City, the bride of Christ as we were hearing about last evening, 
founded in Truth upon Jesus,  She shall forever endure. 

There is not, time can never,  shock, erase, upset, destroy what God started 
back in eternity. These people that were believing in Jesus in that day, we 
read how Peter took the _____ , you take , have the word of prophecy for sure 
and he said, you take well that you look unto it like a shinning light in a 
dark place until the day dawn and day star arise in your hearts, we were 
hearing about the day dawning, that day star rising, appeals to me that, that, 
that particular verse that Jesus said, Peter is referring to, to be of that, 
that they saw when they were with him when they were with him upon 
the most Holy Mount. is coming again, his returning, the day star rising, his 
coming again, his returning, he says you do well to take heed unto what the 
prophets wrote about that they spoke a lot about that. Prophet Isaiah, other 
prophets spoke a lot about the Messiah coming, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, 
and people that didn’t have, were not feeling after Truth didn’t want to know 
God working the Truth in their lives, even among his own people. That was what 
they 
were looking for. They were looking for one and they are looking for one to 
come as King of  Kings and Lord of Lords, but never would it be that they 
would first need to be in subjection to him themselves,  and those prophets 
that were inspired of God it says it wasn’t of any private interpretation. It 
wasn’t something that they just got in their mind, that this would be maybe a, 
some future events for mankind. They were not, it wasn’t a private 
interpretation, what they 
wrote, it was Holy men of God moved by the Holy Spirit that wrote those 
things, and we are thankful that we have the confidence that we have today in 
the Word of God. That is was Holy men of God moved by the Holy Spirit that 
wrote these things and we do well, we will do well to take heed unto  it as a 
shinning light in a dark place until the Lord comes. We don’t know that time, 
we are told to look forward to it. We are told to hasten its coming sought by 
looking 
forward to it, looking forward to it hasten unto the coming of our Lord Jesus 
Christ. I have to keep reminding myself, and I don’t as much as, much as I 
should, that today the Lord could come. Times when you are faced with, 
difficulties and trials and , a, it looks impossible, as we were hearing, it 
is so easy just to let the obstacle hinder you from seeing what faith would 
like to help you see. That’s beyond us and that beyond that is the coming of 
the Lord and that could come to 
day so we help when we are faced with something that is not part, ah, by 
rights is not easy, don’t let the thought take hold of you, I don’t know how I 
am going to get through the rest of my life like that. Might live to be a 
million, project your worries like that and troubles. Wonderful thing when we 
can learn and I have talked with myself pretty strait at times about it, but 
it is a wonderful thing when we can learn to take one day at a time when it 
comes to facing things  that are not pleasant or easy. The obstacles that life 
might present even of a non-spiritual nature, difficulties, trials, test, 
family disappointments, common disappointments, it’s a wonderful thing when we 
just listen to the simple words that Jesus said, when he said, take no thought 
for tomorrow. It wasn’t just for those that were going out to preach the 
gospel, I don’t believe, He said take no thought for tomorrow, tomorrow will 
take care of the things of its self, sufficient unto the day is the evil 
thereof. Heavy enough today, don’t have to take ten days or one hundred days 
at a time. Heavy enough today. I think Jesus, we have this assurance, we have 
this complete confidence that everything Jesus taught, he did that first. And 
I think that there were many moments in life when he just recognized what I 
have to contend with today , just better get that help from God today for 
that, and tomorrow I’ll get some other help, as needed, but they said, take 
one day  at a time. And in the simple prayer he gave his children to pray as a 
manner, or after that manner, He says give us this day our daily bread, 
someone has said and it’s very true, that filling ourselves up with to morrows 
worries , empties us of our peace today. If you want to get rid of your peace, 
just start worrying about a lot of things. But God doesn’t want us to fret, he 
wants us to trust, doesn’t want us to listen to that voice, just flee to like 
a bird to your mountain, not just something without a foundation. I’ve, I’ve 
thought about this , this, this epistle is such, so wonderful and the other 
epistles that he wrote. In just confirming and assuring  the beginning of what 
we believe. You can imagine people in that day, in Johns day, and at this 
period of time, maybe about sixty years or so after the death of Jesus, people 
seeing those miracles meetings from Christ, questioning it, some were falling 
away from it. Some were going out, we read about that, said they went out from 
us, that it might be manifested that they are not of us, they cease to 
exercise strength in Christ, and a belief that the willingness to habitate 
flesh in their lives, then to question it, Wonder about its beginning, I 
suppose, where it started, how it started, I suppose,  began to think , well 
ya know, what you are believing with that man, ah, and he is going to get 
killed and about another thirty years he lived it and then he died but, he is 
still gone, he is not alive.  

And then what you’re believing, is , be about 100 (one hundred) years old. But 
what we’re believing in, especially those from the Jews and other people, who 
are believing in something a lot older that. I tell you what we believe in 
goes back further that. 

 Well, the people who have got a revelation of the Truth that is in Jesus, 
NEVER TRIED TO FIND COMFORT OR HAVE NO REASON TO TRY TO FIND COMFORT IN TRYING 
TO TRACE ITS BEGINNING IN THE EARTH.
Because it’s not where it  it began. But we’re, we’re  are rather fortunate, 
we’ve lived a few years and we’ve known some that lived quiet a few years 
before they passed from time into eternity, they had a part in preaching the 
gospel. They could tell us  a lot of that experience, sometimes we call’em the 
earlier days of their experience. 
God put it into  their hearts to feel after him, and to seek after him,    and 
to find and began to believe in a WAY like Jesus taught. But I NEVER HEARD ONE 
of them say That was when it began. It was just during that period of time, 
and wonderfully so, God has probably done that in a lot of different days and 
ages. But we’re fortunate to live in one of those when He has been able to 
raise up people to feel after Him and to find Him, And to find faith to 
believe in the Son. And the revelation that God gave them didn’t go back to 
just their day, or the day of someone else, it just went bact to one that was 
with the Father--the eternal Father from the beginning. And if we have the 
unction that these people had in that day, when John said , you have an 
unction, you have an anointing, and if you just read about that, their, where, 
where that understanding of Revelation comes, about the FOUNDATION of our 
belief, and that it had its foundation in the earth or, it had its first 
beginning with the Father, I think it’s there, in heaven, back before the 
world began, then  back before man ever ,  be ,  came into the earth, came, 
came , it began  before man ever sinned, began before the Devil  made a 
decision not to abide in him, became a liar. AND THAT IS THE BEGINNING OF IT 
!!
 I think because of the , ah , soul that is not in the truth because there is 
no truth in him, what , what we’re believing , what we are trusting in and the 
WAY that we have come to love and adore has its beginning with the Father back 
before all of that was,    Back in eternity, before time began, that part of 
eternity. Perhaps we could read those verses that we are going to mention here 
in John’s epistle.  And if this -------- anybody tries to put doubt in your 
mind, but if you have this unction and you hold on to it, you will keep 
understanding  and then you’ll understand,  my faith, my confidence and what I 
‘m trusting in doesn’t have its origins with man. 
I’ll just tell you, maybe, I’ll just tell you a little bit about my mother’s 
experience. Mother and Father, the gospel came to them the year they were 
married. Both total strangers. My father’s people were quiet religious, not a 
lot was said about the church, a lot, especially my grand father, my father’s 
side, and some evangelist had come, made a big showing there in that city, and 
then my grand father got talking with one of the school trustees was also a 
deacon in the Baptist church, about how good it would be if they could have 
some evangelist come to their church, and ah, my grand father was Scottish, he 
said, ah, but he said ,  ya know, couldn’t pay ‘em very much, wouldn’t be able 
to get a fellow like was here, with,  ah, this Richie fellow from outta Texas, 
said couldn’t afford  anyone like that. Well, this man was a trustee in this 
little school house as well as a deacon of the Baptist church. 
He said to my grandfather, said ya know, there is two men,    They out in ,    
 Preaching the gospel , out there in that little school, said, he said I gave 
them permission to use that. I don’t know much about them, it’s just that I’m 
sure , quiet sure that you could get them pretty reasonable. Well now, that 
opened the way for them to come and to, my father , grandfather was a business 
man and they came down to his place of business and talked with him and he 
tried to settle up the business with them, but helped him understand they were 
on more important business, and if they could just provide the building and 
the heat and so-fourth, the t they would be glad to provide their services 
free. That was it. 
My mother didn’t go, she had just before that  had gone to listen to this 
other evangelist, and it was what she saw of the sham and hypocrisy, the plea 
for money, and everything she looked at, there was just a hope in her heart, 
I’ll find the Lord here. Now she had been very religious, come from Holland, 
Dutch Reform, and went to church three times on Sunday, and tried to give it 
all she had, from her youth up even, but recognizing something was missing, 
not knowing ,  missing in her and missing where she was.  She didn’t know what 
it was, and when she had an opportunity to go, my fathers mother invited her, 
finally . Each night, they were having meetings almost every night of the week 
except Sunday, I believe it was , or Saturday,  maybe it was except Saturday. 
But my mother wouldn’t go because her confidence had so been shaken and sh e 
said that she had left that other ceremony, that other service with that big 
evangelist, I’ll never listen to anybody until I know first who they are.  
That’s why she wouldn’t go to listen, but after a, a week did and that very 
first meeting she had this confidence in her heart, these men are  sent  from 
God. She had this feeling, the first time in her life, the Kingdom of heaven 
is now being brought neigh to me. She made her choice after a while. My father 
got  in a hard spot, he wasn’t troubled yet in a way, his parents were getting 
very opposed, put the workers out eventually, fortunately in the meantime, 
they had come to stay with my parents, just a new married couple in a little 
flat, at their bidding, even though my grandparents became very opposed 
afterwards, they hugged her after my grandmother talked with my mother about 
it, came , they had been staying some time with them, they had a bigger place, 
my grandparents, but my parents had just a small place, but the workers came 
there, gave them a lot of chance to talk with them and observe them. But when 
my mother made her choice,  she said, she said, I did not know but they were 
the only two people in the earth that were  following Jesus, but she said, 
that made no difference, because I loved him my self,  and I know God used 
them to help me get to know Him, BUT again, her faith wasn’t in some movement 
that was growing for years after years or for ever, was just her faith for 
Him, a message that God had sent and brought her in touch with the God of the 
messengers. And it’s that anointing, its that unction that is going to keep 
people in the day of testing and when the Devil himself in various ways may 
try to question whether you have the right or you have the truth. Well, I  
like what Paul, , what John said in those verses, 1st John 18th  verse, second 
chapter, Little children, it is the last time, people wonder if we are living 
in the last days, nearly two thousand years ago, but then, and as you have 
heard that the anti-Christ shall come, even now there are many anti-Christ, 
whereby we shall know that it is the last times. They went out from us, but 
they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have 
continued with us.  But they went out that they might be made manifest that 
they were not all of us. But you have an unction from the Holy Bible and you 
know all things, it wasn’t that they just understood everything and knew 
everything, but they knew that one that knew all things. I like what, what he 
wrote in the , further on in that second chapter, verse 26, These things, 
another reason he said he was writing it, first verse, I had fellowship with 
the Father, with his son, but then , that their joy could be full and in verse 
26, there he said, these things have I written to you concerning them that 
seduce you, for the enlightened, seducing is a strong word, use it in the 
world today when people commit crimes that are lurid, kind of crimes, lustful 
crimes against people, to draw them away and get them in trouble, but this,  
he said, I’ve written this regarding them that are trying to draw you away 
from this Truth, as it is in Jesus. And he just said, but the anointing which 
you have received of him, that unction, abideth in you and you need not that 
any man teach you, but as the same anointing teaches you all things and this 
Truth that is NO LIE, no counterfeit other translation says, and even  as I 
have taught you, you shall abide in him. It’s  wonderful that,  that is the 
promise,  like we were hearing, that was given of the Holy Spirit. Spirit of 
Truth as it is called in some places. Called the Holy ghost, called the 
comforter. Several times Jesus spoke to it.  He spoke about it as the Spirit 
of Truth. He said it would lead and guide us into all truth. We’ve had the 
privilege, not just with ourselves personally, but observing in our brothers 
and sisters, in  different lands, as well as this country, and 
that--God---is---living in the person of his son amongst his people, and that 
they are being led and guided into all truth, they don’t need some other 
source for teaching, they don’t need any other , it , ah,  thing to turn to, 
they don’t need some books.  They don’t need any kind of literature, but the 
Holy Spirit is teaching them and leading them and guiding them into all Truth. 
Now that doesn’t mean that everyone that is professing and believing and in 
this ministry, that everyone must, ah, understand every verse alike. It didn’t 
mean that, but it does mean this, that the Doctrine we are believing in and 
the teaching  that we are upholding and what we are living, would confirm that 
Christ has come in our flesh. Maybe difference of understanding about some 
things, but neither understanding would take the position that we are going to 
follow the course that our flesh would like to take, and take that of, ah, 
make , make that kind of a decision about what ever the problem may be or the 
matter may be.  There will be, and there is, that’s a Wonderful thing, and we 
can say that without any question, that of all the ones I’ve come to know, and 
others have come to know, in this world, where ever in this country of our 
home or through the world, that where ever there are those that are professing 
this, their spirit is the blessing that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

Speaking about the anti-Christ, speaking about those that are going out from 
among us, that are teaching something else, trying to undermine the teaching 
that comes in the Gospel of Christ, he said in the fourth  chapter, every 
spirit testing. He’s just, brethren, maybe we could just read those verses, 
beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the Spirits whether they are of God 

because many false prophets are gone out into the world, hereby ye know the 
Spirit of God, every spirit that confirm that Jesus Christ is come in the 
flesh, is of God and every spirit, this is the spirit that’s in a person, that 
confesses not that , that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God and 
this is that spirit of anti-Christ where of you have heard that it should 
come, and even now already it is in the world, but ye are of God,   his little 
children. John, when he was writing this epistle, he, he, spoke of those that 
would be born of God and he used the expression that who-so-ever be that would 
not sin, well he’s also said in this epistle , that if we say we have not sin 
, we lie, and if we say, we, we, make him a liar, and if we say, I’ll just 
read those verses in the first chapter, if we say, verse eight, if we have no 
sin, we are deceiving ourselves. The Truth is not in us, and then in verse 
ten, if we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar,  his words that 
is. And then in other, in the third chapter, it goes on to speak about, and 
the fourth, the fifth chapter, I would say , it goes on to speak about the 
person that should be born of God wouldn’t have sin, sinneth not. And we could 
look at that a little more closely  ‘cause, another reason he wrote these 
things is to tell us at the beginning of the second chapter, is that we 
wouldn’t sin. Said these things have I written thee my little children, these 
things that I write unto you that you sin not. But that if any man sin, we 
have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous, who is an 
approach,   appropriation, verse, propitiation, excuse me, who is the 
propitiation for our sin, not our sins only, but for the sins of the whole 
world. So, the provision of the blood of Christ is for the person that is 
unregenerate person who  living in a dead Christ, as we were before we 
believed the Gospel, but the provision of the blood of Christ is also for the 
believer, and for all of us, our only hope is in Calvary, but that does not 
mean that for provision for us to just go ahead and sin, because the blood of 
Christ is there to take care of us. If we can just make this statement without 
getting the wrong thought across, across, is this the plan of Jesus, this WAY 
that Christ came and taught, this Way that we are reading about here in these 
verses, never made provision for people to sin, just go ahead and sin, that 
will be taken care of, never, as we were reading there in Romans the other 
day, and that is what Paul said, some say that, that is what we say, said some 
slanderously say this and affirm that this is what we teach because he had 
said, if our sin helps to show how righteous God is because if God be true and 
every man a liar, and if our lies serve to help to see people how honest and 
true God is, well , they said, then let’s just sin all the more and that’ll 
just make God appear to be all the more right, be all the more wrong, and 
we’ll show how much right , like, more right he is.  He said, God forbid that. 
He said people might say, well, my rights, my error of my ways, if my 
wrongness  is, serve to show how right God, right God is, why do I get judged 
a sinner. God forbid that, so this WAY that we are given, and it isn’t just to 
keep a provision open for us if we sin. But Christ wonderful provision to 
offer forgiveness to one that has sinned, without that we would have no hope, 
without that , we would be without hope today. Our only hope is Calvary, and, 
ah, no one can just say, we’re without sin. But we are glad, we’re glad  that 
in this way of God, we have found Calvary, to deal with things we have been 
overcome with in the past. And a person is not just going to go on wantonly 
sinning, that’s not of God. You can’t do that because the seed that in him of 
the spirit of God wouldn’t condone that, wouldn’t permit that and it would 
keep us, might want to struggle with feelings, about , for, between one 
another and be jealously, things like that, we all struggle with, some of 
that, but that would never have to become the boss, you wouldn’t have to 
listen to it, we wouldn’t have to feel it, we wouldn’t have to give it 
permission to rule and reign in our life. We’d have to completely subdue it 
and keep it from taking root, taking over, and , ah, we’d never become like 
Cain, we’d never become like that wicked one, we’d never sin like that, we’d 
be kept from that type of sin, where he went out and slew his brother. 
John, when he was writing this, put, just seemed, to make it so plain that if 
we say we love him, then we should walk as he walked. We should be, if we’re 
gonna, say we are in fellowship with him, then we should be found keeping his 
commandments, because if we don’t, we are lying, we are not doing the job.
John spoke so much, I forget, I counted it up here, how many times he spoke 
about the Truth, in this epistle, spoke a lot about the Truth,  sometimes I 
fear, sometimes , sometimes when people ask us, when people refer to one 
another, say I’m in the Truth, and there is something very right about that 
expression, but I think we need to be a little careful that we just kinda use 
it , almost like a name tag . Be a little careful  about the name, but the 
truth, that’s a wonderful way to describe it and does  in the bible use it to 
describe what we believe, but it’s not just kind of a singular name tag we put 
on it, but the truth is Jesus, Jesus is the truth, Remember when Pilate ask  
him, why, why don’t you fight for your kingdom, every king that has ever had a 
kingdom in Israel, he has always fighted to hold on to it for some, with that, 
either he dies on the throne or somebody’s going to take it away from him.  
You’re ready, why don’t you fight for it? Well , Jesus, if my kingdom, were it 
of this world, I’d fight for it , just like any other king would hold on to 
his kingdom, But, my kingdom, he said, is not of this world, it’s from another 
source, my kingdom is now, its not from that other source, my kingdom is  a 
heavenly kingdom, they couldn’t understand that , and very, he just told 
Pilate, this is the cause I came. I didn’t come to set up a kingdom here now, 
I didn’t come up and set up something to try to make a big show here now. I am 
trying to bear witness of the truth. And he said, everyone is that, of the 
truth, hears my voice. That blind man, he was that day,  unwilling, not loving 
truth himself, His last question that day to Jesus was, What - is - truth? So, 
we’re, we are so thankful that we have come to know the truth as it is in 
Jesus, and he will just prevent us from allowing things to grow and develop  
in our lives that would develop a hatred toward one another or toward our 
brother. Who so ever is born of God will not sin, in that respect, if trust , 
if we don’t love our brother that we can see, how can we love God whom we 
haven’t  seen ? Well, that was serious, Jesus spoke a lot about that in his 
ministry. We don’t forgive one another and that neither God can forgive us. 
That’s nothing to go around with the attitude that we have to, have to forgive 
my brother, if I have to do it, I’ll do it. Like we were mentioning to some 
recently, what, what if God was like that toward us ? What about the hymn that 
says, thou doesn’t delight to put our wrongs aside, as from our  hearts  we 
purpose to abide. That’s what John is speaking about , in this chapter, the 
Lord delights to put our wrongs aside, as from our hearts we purpose to abide. 
 As there is a right repentance, a confession, we confess our sin, like it 
says, he is faithful and just to forgive us  our sin and to cleanse us from 
all unrighteousness. Well, a soul that’s experiencing that, that relationship 
with God, and that’s keeping true, and that keeping right with God, by that 
means, he is anxious to extend that to another. Being forgiving and, and  I do 
believe,  so subtly, that,   that, the other way, there, we need help to 
subdue, that, that from God. That I think, is in the long run, as we keep true 
to God, keep loving God, keep loving his provision for forgiveness for us, we 
learn to love the privilege to forgive others, not something we are going to 
have to do, it’s not going to be a commandment, that’s grievous to us. It’s 
something  we have to do, that’s a grievous commandment, love , forgive one 
another, if that’s what you have to do, that’s grievous, and,   and, and Jho, 
John said that was one of the evidences , that of the signs that we were right 
and that we are a child of God, is that we find that his commandments are not 
grievous. When he mentioned in that fifth chapter, by this we know that we 
love the children of God and keep his commandments for this is the love of 
God, that we keep his commandments and his commandments are not grievous. That 
would be a burdensome thing, we were hearing about the way they, how they were 
fighting greater battles,   that’s so true, more stern will grow the conflict 
as nears our Lords return, Those alone kept faithful, and from them God ask 
nothing, but to unlatch the door, living in his truth,  that they can conquer 
ever more. But this is the other beauty, dying to our own will, denying 
yourself, taking up your cross, standing out, fighting reproach from others, 
that’s what, that means, I think, the way I understand it, there always will 
be struggles and test, yourself, this would just help to put self into 
subjection each day, that his will could be done in your life, well, then when 
we walk out into the world where people are just living for their own will and 
their own  self, doing their own thing as they say, you are going to get some 
reproach because they are going to look down on you and despise you, just like 
they despised the Lord when he lived that way. Selfless people are going to be 
looked down upon by selfish people. And, ah,  that bearing our cross, we don’t 
mind that, we can follow him.  I just love this expression, I think this is 
what it means, maybe it will help us to understand. In the third chapter, My 
little children, in verse eighteen, speaks about us understanding the love of 
God, this isn’t the way we really perceive it, this is the way we’ve got to 
know it, understand it, is that Christ lay down his life for us, verse 
sixteen, so then we ought to lay down our lives for our brethren. That’s the 
way that would work, well, we can see the love of God. In that earlier 
chapter, that second chapter , John spoke of that , just the way Jesus said 
about it. A new commandment, a new commandment I give unto you, said the old 
commandments you’ve had from the beginning, thou shalt love, we were taught 
that as children, to love, bringing up, to love one another, and we struggled 
with that at times, and to love our parents, and to love others, we’ve been 
taught that, that’s wonderful, wonderful what’s within the range the human 
family, to do limited well by a perfect stranger,  anger, in anger, or we 
can’t perform any work that will make us right eternally, but even in the 
natural family, God has given a potential there to glorify the one that made 
us, there is a love in the human family, when we used, utilize it, when used 
and practiced, is greater , it’s greater, it’s far above what you could ever 
see in any other  creation. When it is utilized, but we have been exposed to a 
far greater love. Not just the love that mother had for us, and father had for 
us, which we become more and more thankful for as time goes on, we just become 
so thankful and so grateful for having had the little bit of love, normal, 
maybe bringing up. We, we’ve seen children go out sometimes into unpleasant 
situations, parents didn’t love them and parents didn’t love each other, left 
each other and left ‘em with other people, lots of incidents like that. 
Sometimes happens because the flesh is weak and it just makes us thankful , 
and it makes us thankful for our parents loved us and we weren’t exposed to 
that kind of love as children, but however, in the first commandment and ah 
the  law was, when it was given, to people, was given to unregenerate people 
was a spiritual law given to carnal men and when they are ask to love one 
another, that family from the beginning, that, to do with that, was to the 
extent to which God put in them humanly to do. But he said, we have a need for 
that. He said, this thing, it’s true in him , verse eight, New commandment I 
write unto you, which then is true in Christ, in other words, the truth of 
this commandment is seen in him. And in you because the darkness is past and 
the true light now shines, well, it’s , well, we’ve listened here in the 
meetings, heard again about the sacrifice of Christ and his leaving heavens 
glory to come to earth to live for us, the sinless one dying for us as 
sinners, the just dying for the unjust, the one that was godly for the 
ungodly.  We have been shown a love, exposed to a love that is far greater 
that human love. The full expression of the divine love of God in Jesus. God 
so loved the world, that he gave his son. And with the giving of his son, and 
the living of his son amongst us, and his dying on Calvary, everything showed 
us that god loved man, and showed us the love of God, and even showed us that 
kind of love and we feel moved by that kind of love, so now we can love one 
another even as Christ loved us, that, that, knows no boundary. We read in 
first Corinthians  thirteen, that speaks about love that endures all things, 
but when you keep a record of wrong, keep a record of evil,  things like that, 
just , just , able to conquer everything.  
Nothing can withstand it , so glad that we’ve come to know about that, and 
like it says, for us, many of us that are walking in this way, we’re just 
gonna feel unworthy, hope we never feel that way.  We’re always gonna feel 
unworthy, and that doesn’t just give us an excuse to slouch off, if I can use 
that expression, but even when we are giving him a our best, giving it our 
all, we are going to feel like in our own hearts, we’re not doing enough.
Well, I love the expression where it says, leave, love neither in deed, not in 
words, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth, verse eighteen of the 
third chapter, and hereby , no=== are of the truth, this is the way we’ll know 
we are in the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him or it says how we 
will set our hearts at rest, that when our hearts condemn us, God is greater 
than our hearts, and no thought brings, we love, if our hearts condemn us 
enough, not then we have confidence towards God, regardless of our 
unworthiness, that doesn’t disqualify us as children of God. It qualifies us, 
but don’t let that feeling of unworthiness be the last feeling  you have.  Let 
us understand this, that God is greater than our hearts, he knows all things, 
there is a way that our hearts can be put at rest, you don’t have to be 
restless with a feeling of unworthiness, but we can see that God counts us 
worthy through the blood of his son as we continue to love him and follow him 
even tho we fall short of the perfection that is in  him, as we continue to 
abide in him, let that Holy Spirit abide in us, his Holy Spirit, then we’ll 
have peace with God and will be able to set our hearts at rest.  And find his 
comfort, and I’d just like to keep reminded, when we are so adversary 
conscious, be more conscious that we have an advocate. We have one for us, we 
have a greater one on our side than is against us, it’s wonderful that we can 
overcome by the blood of the Lamb, the word of our own testimonies, not loving 
our life unto the death, and with that love we’ve been mentioning, we can 
overcome because greater is he that comes, than that is in the world. It’s 
good that we read there in the eighteenth chapter of Luke once in a while just 
to see the beauty of prayer and the value of prayer. 

THE END.

As I
read this sermon, I graciously tried to sift out all that extraneous
stuff... even so, I found this sermon to be fraught with incomplete
sentences and thoughts and QUITE difficult to follow!  I will refer
to Irving Ross as IR in future... not out of disrespect, but for
brevity.

Lynn quoted IR's sermon,  "..the foundation of our hope is founded
upon his life."
        Lynn then said, >>>Good.<<<

Greg responded:
        >>>However, what is he talking about here?<<<

***Actually, this was not "Good" in my estimation.  I believe this
comment of IR's was very much in keeping with the teaching in the
group that the LIFE of Jesus is more important than the BLOOD of
Jesus.  Most of those with whom Brian and I have visited with since
leaving (not to mention what we learned in a lifetime of living in
the group and listening to as many sermons as we possibly could!)
feel that our salvation comes from following the LIFE example of
Jesus.  THAT is clearly NOT what the Bible teaches IMO.
        Should not our HOPE be founded on Jesus' death, burial and
resurrection... His FINISHED work?

Lynn quoted IR again:
 "...Wonder about its beginning, I suppose, where it started, how it
started, I suppose, began to think, well ya know, what you are
believing with that man, ah, and he is going to get killed and about
another thirty years he lived it and then he died but, he is gone, he
is not alive"
        Then Lynn said, >>>What is all this waffling? Doesn't make sense!
Working up to something, beginning to get nervous, knowing what he is
about to say next! Don't know!!<<<

***Actually, this was another area of the sermon that I marked as
HIGHLY offensive to ME!  Prior to the waffling which Lynn quoted
above, IR spoke of John's writings as being "confirming and assuring
the beginning of what WE BELIEVE." [what IR's group believes, of
course!]  Then he slid into speaking of those who were "falling away"
from Jesus at the time of John's writing:
        "You can imagine people in that day, in John's day, and at this
period of time, maybe about sixty years or so after the death of
Jesus, people seeing those miracles meetings from Christ, questioning
it, some were falling away from it...."
        Then IR goes back into the "waffling" as Lynn called it.  To me this
was likening those that might have questioned Jesus "sixty years or
so after the death of Jesus" with those that are NOW questioning the
beginning of the 2x2 group... he even went on to say AFTER what Lynn
quoted:
        "And then, what  you're believing, is, be about 100 years old.  But
what we're believing in, especially those from the Jews and other
people, who are believing in something a lot older than that.  I tell
you what we believe in goes back farther than that.  Well, the people
who have got a revelation of the Truth that is in Jesus, NEVER TRIED
TO FIND COMFORT OR HAVE NO REASON TO TRY TO FIND COMFORT IN TRYING TO
TRACE ITS BEGINNING IN THE EARTH."

***First I found it offensive, because IR was likening the
questioning and falling away from JESUS to the questioning and
falling away from IR's SYSTEM/GROUP...  IT IS NOT THE SAME THING,
IMO!!!!!
        Secondly... his thinking is ALL twisted up here... some times he is
saying the beginnings shouldn't matter.  [Because IR doesn't want
people asking him or anyone else in his group about the 100-year ago
beginning of the 2x2 group!]  But at other times IR is saying how he
can trace his way much farther back than just to Jesus... and, later
in his sermon, IR takes "what we believe" all the way to the
beginning of time and beyond!?!
        Thirdly... "the beginnings" and being able to trace back was VERY
important in the NT!!  Jesus took the time after His resurrection to
speak with them and teach them, "beginning with Moses and all the
Prophets, what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself"--
Luke 25:27.  If you look at the messages given in Acts (and
throughout the rest of the NT) and the way these men tied in the OT
prophecy about Jesus in their teaching of Jesus, these things were
treated as important and were learned well and were clearly taught!
        The requirement for the apostles (Acts 1:21-22) was "men who have
been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up
from us.  For one of these must become a witness with us of his
resurrection."  It was VERY important to have this true "witness!"
The writings in the NT, I believe, are all from those who were the
actual eye-witnesses of Jesus' life, or those who had known and been
taught by those eye-witnesses.  The history of Jesus life and death
and resurrection as well as the beginning of the church at Pentecost
was very clearly taught throughout the NT.  The facts were so well
known and documented that even those who HATED Jesus and HATED this
"sect" that was rising up because of Him could find NO WAY to
discount their claims nor "prove" that what they said about Jesus and
the beginning of their church was a lie!  (Though, there were MANY
who wanted to!)

Greg wrote:
        >>>Yes, there is some truth spoken, but as Lynn indicates, it
usually ends up being associated with professing...ummm, make that
professing and possessing.<<<

***Though I DO see enough of the message of grace in IR's sermon to
make people who understand it BELIEVE that's what he is teaching, I
do not agree with Bonnie that that message is CLEARLY presented and
the primary focus of the message. I also felt the association to IR's
group which Greg referred to above... IMO, there was much groundwork
laid; a clear "context" established; much "setting of the stage" long
before the subject of grace ever came up.
        I will make one further statement here to back up what I have just
said... if any one wants to see more specifically WHY I say that and
HOW I came to that conclusion, you can check out my second post,
titled "Re: Convention Sermon-Further Thoughts".
        BONNIE... if you're still here... it is AFTER IR has already been
spending a lot of time discrediting all others and affixing ONLY IR's
group with the truth of scripture, that IR lays the FINAL brick in
the groundwork. (Not that he is not going to continue to repeat again
and again what he has already stated).... "God put it into their
hearts to feel after Him, and to seek after Him, and to find and
BEGIN TO BELIEVE IN A WAY LIKE JESUS TAUGHT."  There it is... THE WAY
which IR is speaking about is NOT JESUS [as mainstream Christianity
teaches]... it is a SYSTEM which Jesus taught them to believe in!!
[Of course, by this point in IR's message, it should be clearly
understood by IR's listeners that that WAY that Jesus taught is THEIR
group's way and no other.]
        So when IR begins to speak of "grace" the scene has been set... this
"grace" that he chooses to speak of has to be all wrapped up in "the
WAY that WE BELIEVE."  IR's listeners would know that this "grace" of
God is only extended to those who are connected to "the truth of
Jesus."  [Which has been clearly established as none other than IR's
group!]

If anyone has made it this far and is interested in even MORE of what
I saw in this sermon, check out my post, "Re: Convention Sermon-
Further Thoughts"

Connie J

        Irving Ross started by establishing that the "God's people" which
John was writing to in his general epistle was the same "God's
people" that are in IR's group today, "this would be one that would
be talking directly to the needs of all of God's people, in that time
and FOR OUR TIME, TOO.  This creates a beginning.  For it is that
which was from the beginning, which we have heard...." and he goes on
to apply all of John's words to his [IR's] group.  IR goes on to say
that John's primary purpose for writing was "to just give them a
fresh understanding of the source of their hope [based on the
groundwork ALREADY established here, read IR's GROUP's HOPE], the
foundation for their belief [again, read here IR's GROUP's BELIEF.]
        Then, IR goes from establishing that JOHN was writing about IR's
group to "showing" that ALL of the Bible refers to IR's group.  At
this point, IR also begins to discredit those who would question the
rightness of IR's group and those who belong to all "false religions.
"  In speaking of the Psalmist, I believe IR's reason for bringing
this into the sermon is to credit the Psalmist as one who believed
"as we believe"... having his trust in the Lord, but "some voice"
[like that of the "evil enemies of the truth"?] trying to compel him
to "flee like a bird to your mountain."  IR says, "People might try
to suggest that WHAT YOU ARE BELIEVING [read here, 2x2 thought, 2x2
way, 2x2 belief] is just another mountain.  [Though] There ARE
mountains OTHER PEOPLE [read here, those in all other "false ways"]
are believing in, but we are glad that the Psalmist said... My help
cometh from the Lord who made the heaven and earth." [Established...
"what we are believing today" and the Psalmist's trust in the Lord
are the only true belief... all others are just "other mountains."]
        To clarify this point, IR goes on to say, "OUR help [in IR's group]
is not in a man-made order, an earthly mountain [read here false
religion].  It's origin, the roots of OUR FAITH, OUR BELIEF are
clearly seen and understood THESE DAYS by what we have heard, what we
have seen..." [Again, IR is re-stating that John's words in the Bible
refer to IR's group's origin and belief, etc.]
        This groundwork continues all the way through this long paragraph...
the Revelation of Jesus Christ which can make IR's group "so glad
today when WE think about OUR hope, and WE think about OUR confidence
and OUR trust, that is in Jesus... all the writing in our Bible is
the inspired word of God that has come to mean so much to US."  [Of
course, the teaching in the group is that no one ELSE really cares
two figs about what the Bible teaches.]
        IR goes on to speak of the generations believing in JOHN's day...
fathers, young men, children, etc.  And, then IR segues this nicely
into IR's group again, "WE are encouraged seeing generations of
believing, young generation, being MOVED of GOD and CALLED OF GOD to
go into THE WORK."
        Then IR goes off on a tangent about the people of John and Peter's
time not having any of the New Testament to read.  Actually (and I'm
not going to take the time to find it now... it has been referred to
on this list before) there IS at least one "quote" of NT testament
writing in another NT writing... in which, if I'm remembering
correctly, it was considered to be inspired... GOD's word.  Those
writings were shared and passed around even in that day, apparently.
        Anyway... aside from THAT, the only reason that I can see for IR
making these points is to insinuate that it is more important for the
people to day to HEAR the words of the workers and accept them as
true than for them to try to delve into the scriptures and understand
them for themselves.  (Of course, as I have pointed out in my
previous post, I don't believe this is a valid thought... those
speaking and writing the NT were either those who had had time to get
a thorough "college theology degree" during the time they were with

Jesus or those who had personally known and conversed with those eye-
witnesses!)
        At this point IR also establishes that the teaching of the Prophets
in the OT is tied only with the teaching of IR's group and that the
experience at the Mount of Transfiguration is equal to the convention
IR is speaking at, "Peter at that time generally referred to the
prophet and what they had seen, and said, we have a more sure word of
prophecy, or a translation I believe would be correct... what we saw
when we were up on the mountain makes what we are reading about more
sure.... It wasn't that they were not sure about it until then, I
don't think, hopefully not TOO MANY OF US CAME [to the convention]
that unsure about what WE believe and what WE believe in.  But I do
hope that when WE GO AWAY [from the convention], we go away more sure.
..."
        From here IR continues to tie in all of God's truth from the Bible
with the 2x2 thought and beliefs, "What God started back in eternity;
"  "the new city;" "The heavenly City;" "the bride of Christ;"
"founded in truth upon Jesus;" "a shining light in a dark place;"
"that that they was when they were with him when they were with him
upon the most Holy Mount" [already established to be just like
today's convention experience.]

>From here, IR gets more into discrediting those who are NOT a part of
IR's group... "They were looking for one and they are looking for one
to come as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, but never would it be
that they would first need to be in subjection to him themselves.
[Again, the teaching of IR's group is that those in "false religions"
CLAIM to be looking for a Savior, but they aren't willing to OBEY Him
and be in subjection to Him as those in IR's group are.]
        "It is so easy just to let the obstacles hinder you from seeing what
faith would like to help you see."  [Discrediting those who have
"fallen away" because they let obstacles hinder and didn't have faith
to help them see.]
        Next IR has JESUS speaking of IR's group, " 'take no thought for
tomorrow.' It wasn't just for those that were GOING OUT TO PREACH THE
GOSPEL [2x2 description of the workers].... WE have this assurance,
WE have this complete confidence...."
        Back to the Psalmist to restate the position of "false churches" and
those that have "fallen away" for failure to trust in God, "[God]
doesn't want us to listen to that voice, just flee like a bird to
your mountain, not just something without a foundation."  And, IR
again restates the converse is that the words of John are, "just
confirming and assuring the beginning of what WE BELIEVE."
        Next IR spends some more time discrediting those who would question
the beginnings and anything else to do with IR's group which IR has
been establishing through this entire sermon as GOD's TRUTH.  "The
people WHO HAVE GOT A REVELATION OF THE TRUTH that IS IN JESUS [read
here, those in IR's group] never tried to find comfort or have no
reason to try to find comfort in trying to trace its beginning in the
earth."  [As we "evil enemies of the truth" have.  Again, as I have
previously pointed out, this reasoning is not valid to the teaching
of the NT, either.  Interesting, too, that the 2x2 group doesn't seem
to see a similar problem in trying to trace the beginning of OTHER
groups!!?!]

It was at this point where I made those previous comments (in my
first post, Re: Convention Sermon) to Bonnie in response to her
contention that IR's message is clearly focused on God's grace.
        In addition to this, IR also speaks later in his sermon, "that the
Doctrine we are believing in and the TEACHING that we are UPHOLDING
and WHAT WE ARE LIVING, would confirm that Christ has come in our
flesh. [Again, IMO, it would be very clear by now that what IR is
referring to is the 2x2 "doctrine" of the 2x2 homeless, unsalaried
ministry and the meetings in the home.]

        Now... IR ties in the Bible ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE BEGINNING OF
TIME with IR's group, "WE'RE fortunate to live in one of those [ages]
when [God] has been able to raise up people to feel after Him and to
find Him... the revelation that God gave them didn't go back to just
their day, or the day of someone else, if just went back to one that
was with the Father--the eternal Father from the beginning.  And if
WE have UNCTION that these people had in that day, when John said,
you have unction, YOU HAVE AN ANNOINTING... there where that
understanding of Revelation comes, about the foundation of OUR belief.
.. it had its first beginning with the Father... back before the
world began, then back before man... before man ever sinned... before
the Devil made a decision not to abide in him... that is the
beginning of it."
        The discrediting continues, "the soul that is not IN THE TRUTH [IR's
group, of course], because there is no truth in him;" "anybody tries
to put doubt in your mind;" "some evangelist had come, made a big
showing;" "you know, couldn't pay them very much, wouldn't be able to
get a fellow like was here... this richie fellow from out of Texas...
couldn't afford anyone like that;" "gone to listen to this OTHER
evangelist, and it was what she saw of the SHAM and HYPOCRISY, the
PLEA FOR MONEY;" "very religious... Dutch Reform... went to church
three times on Sunday."  I could continue on with quite a bit more,
but I think you probably see what I'm talking about here.
        The lifting up of the 2x2 group also continues, "What WE'RE
believing, what WE are trusting in and THE WAY that WE have come to
love and adore has it's beginning with the Father... back in eternity;
" "if you have this unction and you hold on to it, you will keep
understanding, and then you'll understand MY faith, MY confidence and
what *I* am trusting in DOESN'T HAVE ITS ORIGINS WITH MAN;" "The
GOSPEL came to them... these two men... preaching the GOSPEL... they
would be glad to provide their services free;" "That very first
meeting she had this confidence in her heart, these men are sent from
God.  She had this feeling, the first time in her life, the Kingdom
of heaven is now being brought nigh to me;" "a message GOD SENT;"
"you have THE RIGHT;" "you have THE TRUTH;" "YOU have the unction
from the Holy Bible and you know all things;" "the enlightened."
Again, there is much more that I could quote in THIS line of
reasoning, too!

So NOW when IR begins to speak of "grace" the scene has been set...
this "grace" that he now chooses to speak of has to be all wrapped up
in "the WAY that WE BELIEVE."  IR's listeners would know that this
"grace" of God is only extended to those who are connected to "the
truth of Jesus."  [Which has been clearly established as none other
than IR's group!]
        IR even addresses his fear in speaking of grace that it might be
misunderstood and qualifies where and how it fits in to things, "If
we can just make this statement without getting the wrong thought
across... THIS the plan of Jesus, this WAY that Christ came and
taught, this WAY that we are reading about here in these verses..."
[This 2x2 way of IR's listeners.]
        Near the end of IR's message, he puts more restrictions on the
reception of this "grace" he was speaking of.  "God counts us worthy
through the blood of His Son AS we CONTINUE to LOVE him and FOLLOW
him... AS we CONTINUE to ABIDE IN him.  [Again, these terms would be
known by most of IR's listeners to refer to obeying the supposed
commands of Jesus regarding the 2x2 ministry and the meetings in the
home.  That obedience that is a sign "that we were right and that we
are a child of God, is that we find that his commandments are not
grievous."  "Dying to our own will, denying yourself, taking up your
cross, standing out, fighting reproach from others."]  Set in
contrast, of course, to "the world;" "people just living for their
own will and their own self;" : doing their own thing;" "selfish
people." etc, etc ad nauseam!!
        More and more qualifiers all along the message... "We're glad that
IN THIS WAY OF GOD, we have found Calvary."  "If we say we love him,
than we should walk as he walked" [the 2x2 way.]  "If we're going to
say we are in fellowship with him, then we should be found keeping
his commandments" [the commandments of the 2x2 ministry and meetings
in the home.]  More discrediting, "if we don't, we are lying, we are
not doing the job."

IR warns his listeners to be careful about using "the Truth" like a
name tag, then turns right around and says, "But the TRUTH, that's a
WONDERFUL way to describe it and does in the Bible use it to describe
WHAT WE BELIEVE, but it's not just kind of a singular name tag we put
on it, but the truth is Jesus." [Is that REALLY what IR has been
saying all the way through this message??]
        IR speaks of the problem of his listeners feeling unworthy and says,
"hope we never feel that way."  Yet, later he says, "regardless of
our unworthiness, that doesn't disqualify us as children of God.  It
qualifies us."  [Then, why would he hope that none of them would have
a feeling of unworthiness if that is what qualifies them?]

And that's all I have to say about that!! --- Connie J

November 10, 1997