About the LIST:

A few words about the List. It is active. It is positive. It is negative. In the 2x2s we were discouraged from speaking up--to say what we thought. We looked like we were all in agreement regarding most, if not all, things. Well, surprise! We are now free to speak our minds. And it turns out we have our own! (A little humor here.) On the List you will find a lot of topics. And disagreements too! We are people speaking up. Now that we are "out" we don't pretend to all agree! Why would we? So get ready for an informative but often rocky ride on the List. Post or lurk (just listen). It is up to you. This discussion list began in July 1996. As of September 1997 there were 115 subscribers. As of June 1999 there were 205 subscribers. One month later, July 1999 there were 235 subscribers! The List continues to grow. As of October 7, 1999 there were 243 subscribers.

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It is difficult working through all these things & that is what this list is all about. Sometimes we get angry and sound-off about things that were so close to our hearts or that was a particularly difficult struggle for us personally. It makes ME angry to think of things I did with all sincerity thinking they were things that I was doing to be saved that I later found had nothing to do with salvation--they were merely the rules of man! It takes time to work through these but God is a mighty healer and in the process of sifting through -- you might be able to help someone else who is struggling.

It is nice to be able to communicate with professing and non-professing folks from many countries around the world via the List. Australia, Canada, Ireland, Malaysia, New Zealand, United States……have I forgotten others? The Internet is making this all possible.

I have enjoyed this list so much. Every day I thank God for letting me live long enough to share with others where I came from, and be able to find closure on all the shunning, isolation, and doubts of all the years. Prayer and a love relation with my Heavenly Three-in-One God has only been solidified thru it all.

Being on this list is like sitting in on a Bible study meeting, listening to the different ones take part. The difference here, though, on the list, is that we may not always agree with what is being said and we have the freedom to voice it. Did we ever have the courage to say something in our testimony that maybe others wouldn't have agreed to? There is also the freedom not to take part, which was never the feeling in the meeting if you didn't stand to your feet and say something. 6/97

I just wanted to tell everyone how thankful I am, as always, for this list. I have so much enjoyed reading posts from all of the new people.....your honesty and heartfelt feelings have been really touching me and making me re-think many things myself!! I am so thankful to my Lord Jesus Christ, who gives us such diversity in thought and feeling!! What a help this has been/can be for all of us!! 6/97

So many of us HAVE decided to Speak Up:

I have chosen to leave the fellowship, have never regretted making this decision, and will NEVER go back to it. But that doesn't mean I don't feel for those in it who struggle with the same things I did. I was THERE, and I know how it feels.

If you got out of prison, would you go away and forget the hardships of your friends who were still in prison? Since you were free? Or would you try to make their life more bearable? Send them things, write to them, and maybe campaign to get prison conditions improved, etc. Do little things you could to help their misery?

In a nutshell, I truly do "what I do" (to help others learn the truth) because I take the command seriously: "do unto others what you would have others do to you." What I WISH others had done forme (and others), I try to do for others. I also made a vow to the Lord in my despair in confusion, "Lord, if you will help me to understand this maze, I will help others understand also." He came for my words.

To try and learn from history, I studied dictatorships, totalitarianism, authoritarian governments, etc. "The truth" meets the criteria for a dictatorship. I looked to see what brought about their falls, changes in method of government. I was struck by the answer! One historian summed this up well. The falls ALL (without exception!) came about when the serfs, or peasants, (those at the bottom) REFUSED to comply/submit to those in authority anymore. Change did NOT come from the top down--ever! It came when the lowest refused to play the game anymore. When they rose up and said, "NO MORE!"

So many of us have thought/think that going to the top workers and talking to them about needed changes is the way to get changes brought in. Many have found first-hand this doesn't do any good--in many cases you become the "problem" as soon as you begin talking about a "problem." (very faulty logic!) Going to the top hasn't worked--it doesn't get many badly needed changes made.

Is it also possible the same tactic just might work to effect the much needed changes in the 2x2s that caused the changes in dictatorships?? If the same thing were done regarding the legalistic rules, etc.? (Refuse to go along with the authority.) Individually follow the leading of the Holy Spirit? Say, if the women who wanted to--all cut their hair short. My guess is this would be well over half the women. How soon would it be before the length/style of women's hair was left up to the individual?

There is a precedent in 2x2 history--a successful one too! That's how the horrible black stockings finally went out the door. The young professing girls just started wearing flesh colored hose to meeting. My mom and her sister were some of the first. (Now you see where I get the rebel in me!)

Teenagers also get things changed fast--they just refuse to go along with some of the rules and regulations--refuse to suffer when they can't see (or be shown) a good reason for doing so. So when I'm asked, "Do you think things will ever change? I say, "Yes, when the friends refuse to do these things--when they say No."

Cherie Kropp 1/97

Enjoyed your recent post about what workers are preaching now. Doesn't sound a great deal different to me than what we were hearing when I stopped going 5 years ago. I don't understand why they talk of honesty and then they aren't honest. It's like having a cake made from ingredients that make it taste bitter & uneatable but they put wonderful, great-tasting frosting on it. It looks great & the preliminary taste is okay until you start chewing. However, if you complain, make a face, spit it out or question the baker--YOU are at fault, YOU are bitter--not the cake. Isn't it amazing?? The idea is that you look at it and tell everyone how wonderful it is. It'sperfect, it looks great but YOU are faulted if you try to get into it. How similar to us who have wanted to study the Bible & figure out what the word REALLY says and study it comprehensively. When we ask questions, we are the one with wrong spirits. etc. 4/97

If you knew your friend was about to buy a used car that you knew for a fact was a lemon, or had tampered mileage--wouldn't you as his friend want to warn him against it? Same thing. We try to do for others what we WISH had been done for us. We provide and distribute information. 4/97

I think Jesus' instruction to judge not lest we be judged, is often interpreted to mean we should NEVER question the appropriateness of another's actions. I believe this is a misinterpretation of His intent.

JESUS, REGARDING JUDGMENT:

While it's true Jesus told us not to judge, that is another command that is not without limitations/qualifiers. I'll list just a few...

He told us to be careful that we weren't being led by a blind man; to watch out for wolves in sheep's clothing (by their fruits we would know them). He said it is okay to help a brother get a sliver out of his eye (IF we have first taken the plank out of our own eye, of course!) He said if our brother sins, we should rebuke him. Jesus drove the sellers out of the temple court and he called the Jewish leaders of His day blind fools, hypocrites, blind guides, snakes, etc.

4/97 Connie Jacobsen

What we are trying to do is point to the SYSTEM—it is the system (NOT THE PEOPLE) that is so destructive. We want to help the friends and workers (and those who once professed) understand what the *system* has done and continues to do. Sandi