Sandi, you wrote:

"Abusive groups keep their members programmed (or 'in line') by a steady dose of their dogma/doctrine/beliefs. 'Meeting' is *THE* place for the friends and workers to get their weekly 'shot.' Their weekly caffeine.' Their weekly 'it just has to be right/the ONLY way' programming. Everyone feeds off everyone else. And guess what? IT WORKS!! And rather well, at that! Then top that off with a double doze of Cappuccino -- CONVENTION!!! and we're all indoctrinated for yet another year of "isn't God's Way just sooo perfect--maybe not the people, but the WAY!" ............" Just as you alluded to _____, a 'time out' from meeting helps one to deprogram. ">

I can only speak for myself, but honestly, several years of 'time out' did not help me to deprogram!! I was so 'programmed' from birth that this was the"only way", that in essence, I suffered terrible anxiety and discomfortinside my heart and soul, fearing hell if I died, but feeling hell was easierthan 'professing'!! It's a joke to think that I ever had an intimate relationship with God. I lived in fear of the 'workers', the abiding fear I had lost out from my only route to heaven and was nothing but a loser, and the 'loser status' was all validated by how I was treated by 2x2 relatives and members. Several years of not going to meeting did not fade or diminish my 'programming' or cause me to seek books or counseling that might have helped me. I lived in a dangerous state of deprivation, guilt and self-loathing. I didn't know HOW to think for myself.

I heard for years and years 2x2's say you can leave the 'way', but you can <never> REALLY leave the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Actually that is a quite clear and expansive statement on "mind control", isn't it?? When you ponder that, it's sad. Because we were so 'programmed', we didn't know <HOW> to take inventory of our own "programming"!! It's actually kinda' frightening to ge acquainted with the REAL person that you are because you've never met that person before. It's really been quite overwhelming! But I've emerged, and you know what??? Cheryle is a pretty darn, nice person, even if I do say so myself!!!

And I just did!!!

Take that, all you misguided 2x2's and workers from my past (whew, that is sowonderful to say PAST) who ARE lurking here or ARE being given clandestine reports! Workers, you are <SO> WRONG TO KNOW THE REAL TRUTH AND COVER IT UP!!!! How can you live with yourselves???? Shame on you!! You go into many people's homes, into my relatives homes, and you know the real facts and yet, you say, <NOTHING>!! Shame, shame, shame!!! GAIN MASTERY OVER YOURSELVES, <TELL THE TRUTH>!!! You are interfering and positioning yourself as God! That's blasphemy in my book!!

How's that for 'confronting', Marge!!??? Have a happy day to all, Cheryle Wingert 7/99

Does mind control have anything to do with intelligence?

Regarding your intelligent relatives who are "into something so narrow."
In talking with ____ ______ yesterday about this, he remarked that
intelligence has nothing to do with it; most cults appeal to feelings
(emotions).  I wish I had written down exactly how he put it, but that's
my best recollection.  I think this is largely the case, especially with
those not born and raised in the group.  There may be some exceptions,
but the appeal to what is said to be simple, and more close to the NT
church added to the warm friendship that is held out to inquirers is
very attractive.   A couple of other things which help in the entrapment
of "outsiders" are:  The fact that there is no statement of beliefs,
which makes it easier to read your own into what you hear, at least at
the start.  The use of orthodox terms while attaching new meanings to
them.  7/97  Joan Daniel

This is another interesting topic Joan.

Just the other day a man asked me "how could you possibly have got caught in that group?"   
He simply could NOT fathom it.  Said he could NEVER be fooled into something like that.

Joan, as we both know it CAN and DOES happen and it does NOT have much, if anything, to 
do with intelligence.  It does, however have some to do with KNOWLEDGE.  I say "some" because 
if a person has a solid background in the Bible (I didn't) one MAY know what to watch out for. 
Still I say "may" because, as you've commented Joan, the workers provide no statement of their 
beliefs (OR expectations!) and while we outsiders "just keep attending the meetings" we get
love bombed by the very nice people.  And, as you've mentioned the words they use are the same
as in the churches but simply have a different meaning.  (One example is the word GOSPEL.)

IMO, Christian churches do a poor job of educating their people about hearsay and mind control. 
If they did a better job fewer of their own people would be lost to groups like the LDS the JWs and 
the 2x2s.

There is something to be said for "once burnt; twice shy."  I doubt I'll be trapped into another 
dangerous religious group!

One word that has NOT often come up on the List is EMBARRASSMENT.  For example, regarding 
the man I spoke of at the top of this Email.  I was embarrassed to be telling him of my involvement in 
the 2x2s; especially as he stated emphatically that he could never be trapped in a group like that.  (Little
does he know!)  I tend to try to defend myself by trying to explain how easily it can and DOES happen. 
Usually these folks just don't understand.  Mind you when I talk to folks like these I give them all the 
details--those details I never had before I professed and while I professed.  (History cover-up, doctrinal 
error, secrecy on so many issues, etc.) Given the straight goods prior to my 2x2 involvement I wouldn't 
have "stood to my feet" either!

As far as I can tell people who are raised in the 2x2s are not embarrassed to have been in the group.  
They didn't get "sucked in" they got "born/raised in."  But for those of us who entered in as adults and 
later realized we had been duped we tend to be embarrassed when speaking with others.  7/97  Sandi Gunther

To most people, a "cult" is something that only OTHER PEOPLE are drawn
to or trapped in -- they would "NEVER be part of something like that!"

Sandi is right: "little do they know."  7/97  Kevin Daniel

I don't have many answers but I have plenty of comments!  Re:
embarrassment, I'm going to my 20 year high school reunion in Aug.
having never seen my circle of friends since I wore the bee-hive bun
and long dresses in high school!  Having only left the fellowship 4
years ago, I wish I could tell people I left the fellowship after I
graduated or when I was in college, etc. but that is not the case.
And because people cannot understand the nuts and bolts of cult
involvement unless they experience it, the question of "why were you
in it so long" is difficult to answer.  It is rather embarrassing!
Thought I'd share that....  Susan Howard  7/97

You are right about cult education too, as we need to have more of it, in the
churches and in the schools.  I remember learning all about Satanism when I
was in high school, and thinking it was awful, but I didn’t realize that the 
dynamics of mind control were almost identical in my own belief system.     
7/97  Rose Harrison

Speaking for myself as one ‘born’ into the group and there until I was 40 -- I was plenty embarrassed by it. I would introduce someone in the 2x2s to someone I knew who didn’t go to mtg. & think how dowdy she looks & be embarrassed, forgetting that I looked the same way.

_____ and I were talking yesterday about how many VERY intelligent people we know who are in the 2x2s. They wouldn’t accept another thing without questions like they have accepted the 2x2 doctrine (or lack of). I have every confidence that if they had a medical problem they would research it forward & backwards & go to a specialist wherever they were located but when it comes to meeting they will shrug their shoulders when asked a question about what they believe or why they believe a certain way, or about the meaning of a portion of scripture. It’s sad, it’s scary and I certainly don’t pray enough for those trapped willingly or not in this system.

I was relating my testimony to a lady who goes to our church a few years ago and she was so amazed that we have believed that way for so many years and so totally believed it. I felt pretty embarrassed when she asked if we had used the same Bible in the 2x2s as we use at church—and I had to admit that we did. 7/97 Joetta H

You mentioned that you were embarrassed to have been caught in this snare of wrong doctrine. This little detour that some of you had made in your Christian life was very important to those of us who were born into it. Remember, even as the Daniel family, God had a purpose for this. You had a knowledge of Zion which we in Babylon’s bondage were ignorant of. You could think back to a time that you had freedom, joy and peace, and lost it. We did not know what we did not have. All things work together for good to those who love God. God doesn’t make mistakes.Our God works in mysterious ways His wonders to perform. We thank God that you folk were used in this mysterious way. Sheila Martin 7/97

I know what you mean by 2x2 blinders or 2x2 glasses. I've been out for
a long time, and I *still* have to deal with this--but the pain and confusion
is gone almost completely.  It is through talking and learning and trying
out our ideas that we find the flaws in our learning.  I like the analogy
of my eyes being blinded by layers of misinformation.  A *big* layer came
off when I left the 2x2, but layers are still peeling off--I am still
healing!  Usually the errors in my thinking are pointed out by  my husband
(who never had 2x2 blinders on) or by ______, or someone with whom I am
discussing what I believe.  
3/98  Rosalie Armstrong

"One thing still bothered me. The people [friends] seemed happy and nice, and the Workers always pointed out that no committees were needed because God was the leader. Days, possibly weeks went by as I thought about this. How did the system work so well? It came to me. The word I was looking for was CONTROL. I knew that I was not presenting myself to be who I really was. I knew that to profess I had to exercise control of my every move, every appearance, every word. And then I thought of the few times that the Workers exercised their control over me. I realized that it had all happened to me in a very subtle way. It was subtle control." REFLECTIONS page 168-169

Regarding 2x2 mind set. Yes, the Holy Spirit helped me a lot in deprogramming myself of 2x2 errors but when it comes to the subconscious it just seems that the 2x2 indoctrination takes a long time to shake. Intellectually I may believe one thing but my subconscious may still be kicking in when it comes to previous teachings/attitudes. Is that not one of the reasons why so many of us have been on this List for so long? Perhaps since you are still "in" you cannot fully understand from an EXES point of view? 3/98 Sandi Gunther

Absolutely !!!   _____, this expressed so well what I've long believed about
the "remnants" of 2x2 thinking.  It is natural to rely upon one's own
attitudes to guide us in our every day lives - but in the case of "ex's",
those attitudes often still reflect 2x2 indoctrination.  The subtle, yet
deeply imbedded messages from this group have a profound impact on current
thinking and behaviors. And these old attitudes can be more damaging to
health and recovery than we realize because so often, we are not aware that we
retain them from the past. Being physically "out" is only the first (and
perhaps the easiest) step in recovery !
3/98  Joyce Kettren

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