"So, I'm thinking of leaving; but what's better?"

"While I was professing I had NO idea that God actually had a PLAN of SALVATION! It wasn't until after I left that I learned that He DOES have a plan of salvation.

I had heard various outsiders say that they were saved! I tended to snicker at their ignorance because I got the distinct impression from the workers that we can't know for sure that we are saved.

After I left the fellowship I learned that Adam was created by God physically AND spiritually alive. Imagine--God created him SPIRITUALLY alive. Wow! That must have been wonderful! Adam HAD IT right from the start!

Unfortunately for Adam (and the rest of us!) Satan caused Adam to sin. As a result Adam died---SPIRITUALLY.

So, since the time of Adam and Eve we are all born physically alive but SPIRITUALLY dead! Or, in other words, all people are sinners.

That's a bad deal! We can't do anything about that on our own either. I noticed my Bible says: "as by ONE MAN sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned". ( Romans 5:12) It also says in Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God".

I was really glad when I learned that God, in His mercy, had made provision for my salvation. I sort of knew about this part when I was professing; but it sure wasn't very clear.

There's a verse in the Bible that gets quoted a lot but somehow the workers sort of discount it--at least in my area they did. It's that one in John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." I always wondered if this was too simple. Just believe? Is that really what this verse is saying?

Since God is perfect and sinless, He CANNOT tolerate ANY sin. And we are all sinners! John 3:16 says we will "not perish, but have everlasting life" if we believe. Believe what?

Well, before Jesus, back in the Old Testament days, God required certain sacrifices and laws. These laws are still valuable today because they show us our sin. In Romans 3:20 it says: "for by the law is the knowledge of sin". They SHOW us our sin but keeping these laws, or works, does NOT save us.

When Jesus came to earth He came to BE the sacrifice for mankind. God did away with all the law keeping after Jesus died. God GAVE Jesus to be our sacrifice because God cannot accept us the way we are, and we are not able to save ourselves.

But there's still a "catch."

God doesn't force Himself on us even though He wants everyone to be saved. So, what's the catch? Our belief is! God wants us to believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins, that He was buried and that He rose again. Actually, that's what the Gospel is all about. In 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 the Gospel is defined.

We can't save ourselves but Jesus was willing to save us by becoming our SUBSTITUTE on the Cross! We are the sinners--the guilty ones--the ones who are not pure enough to enter Heaven--the ones who can never be good enough for God--the ones who cannot save ourselves. WE are the ones who NEED a savior and Jesus Christ is the One whom God arranged to take our sin upon Himself! Wow!

It is only by God's GRACE (the unmerited favor of God) that He is willing to grant us eternal salvation through His Son. So what's our part? Are we to be good, read our Bible, go to meetings, obey the workers, follow standards and rules? No, that's not what God asks of us. God will only grant us eternal salvation if we have faith in what Jesus Christ did for us on the Cross--He took away our sins by His death! Our part is to believe the shed blood of Christ covered our sins; to believe that what He did for us is FINISHED. Our part is to have FAITH (believing, trusting) in what HAS BEEN DONE FOR US THROUGH CHRIST'S DEATH.

What an awesome GIFT! And that's just what God calls it--a GIFT! All through the Bible we read of His wonderful gift--Christ's sacrifice for OUR sins! Romans 5:18 says "Therefore as by the offence of one [Adam] judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one [Christ] THE FREE GIFT CAME upon all men unto justification of life." This gift is called "grace."

My favorite verses in the Bible are Ephesians 2:8,9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Sometimes I like to think of it like this: If you give a gift to someone and later tell them that they have to work for it, it really isn't a gift after all! That's how it is with God. He has GIVEN us Chirst as a sacrifice for our sins, and if we try to earn it, God surely must be insulted.

Some people tend to wonder if that means we can just go out and do evil things and not even try to be good, if our goodness doesn't even count with God. No, this isn't the case either, and the Bible addresses this point, too. Take a look at Romans 6:14-15. "for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, becuse we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid."

No, God doesn't want us to go on sinning and once we accept the sacrifice of Christ, He becomes our Master, and He gives us power to do good rather than evil. God wants to give us the power to obey Him with all our hearts. I've found this to be true, too. Once I accepted Christ as the One who took my place on the Cross, I no longer had to struggle with my sin. Sure, I still sin; but not nearly as often because of the guidance of the Holy Spirit who is in my life through Christ.

It's always so hard to explain about Salvation. I know this may be a bit simplistic, but in answer to those who say: "Show me a better way." I'd just have to say that they should not trust in a system but in the Savior--the Savior is Jesus Christ."

".....Tho it is not the ONLY major belief of the system, I DO believe it is one of the THREE primary beliefs of the group. These beliefs being: the homeless ministry, meetings in the home and this teaching that "The Way" is the only way to heaven. This third one, in my opinion, is the most dangerous... it is the one which entraps people and leaves them vulnerable to abuse by the system and, then, KEEPS them entrapped regardless of the abuse they endure.

I.E... Was it _______ who earlier stated her feelings of fear in leaving (tho she was enduring quite a bit of abuse)... "What if this really IS the ONLY way to heaven?"

I, too, remember dealing w/ similar fears... "Will God consider that I am turning my back on HIM if I leave this group?"... Could I possibly lose my hope of eternal life if I leave?... What about my children?...What about my "unprofessing" husband?... We're supposed to be willing to endure persecution that comes at us from ANY direction (even if it's from our brothers and sisters in "The Way")...Are "they" right? Am I wrong to even consider leaving?

Even tho I came to the belief that there were other people saved outside of the group before I left the group, I still struggled w/ this issue... I believe this fear in me that "The Way" MIGHT really be God's chosen way, was one of the issues that made the struggle and final decision to leave the group so very, very difficult to make.

These three (above mentioned) beliefs are also directly connected to the philosophy that all other churches and all other ministers are "false." This also keeps people entrapped because it closes the door to visiting other churches, listening to Christian radio, reading Christian literature or engaging in fellowship and Bible study w/ OTHER Christians. All of these activities would open up the opportunity for exposure to "orthodox" Christian thought and doctrine... they would give 2&2's the chance to see the Bible through other eyes and to make up their OWN minds about what they think is "the truth" from the Bible and ALL the discussion and messages they read and hear about it.

(Personal experience: Even AFTER ______ and I had left the group; even AFTER we were quite confident there were other people outside of the group who loved the Lord and were seeking to serve Him... it was still one of the more traumatic experiences of our lives to walk into one of those "evil, satanic church buildings.")

I believe, generally speaking, MOST 2&2's ARE in bondage (in one way or another) to "the only way" message. Tho, some in the system believe there MAY be people outside of their group who are saved, there are VERY few who don't still believe (or fear) that the system MIGHT be the "only way." They, therefore, believe they must remain in the group; that they must encourage others to stay in (or GET in), and that those who are not "in" are either ignorant of "the truth" or "in rebellion" or, at the least, missing out on the best God has for them.

(Many who have left continue to be plagued w/ the guilt brought on by this belief. 2&2's love to tell the stories of those who left... then, maybe even many, many YEARS later have returned. "They" use those examples as proof that there is nothing of value outside of their system. I believe it is proof of the bondage in the "only way" message. When God draws these people to a relationship w/ Him, they know of no other way to connect w/ Him than to reconnect w/ the system that is "God's only way.")

With a little further questioning of some who claim to believe there may be/are some saved outside the group, they have told us they don't believe, however, that there is true Christian FELLOWSHIP outside of their group... that someone w/ a real desire to serve God WILL be drawn in to the group if/when they come in contact w/ it. (And, conversely,______ and I have been told on more than one occasion that we are headed for hell because we have stepped out of the guidance of God's "chosen ministry".)

The 2&2 system is not the only group that makes the claim, to be "the only way"... in my opinion, ALL groups that make this claim are cultic. I believe it is part of Satan's strategy to keep people from hearing the truth... Why would people look elsewhere (especially into "false" systems) if they understand that they are connected to the only group w/ "truth" and everyone else is blinded and confused?!

The CHOICE of a person to remain in the system even tho he believes there is salvation outside of the system is one thing. It is, however, a completely different issue from the entrapment of one who believes to leave the system would be turning their back on God and, therefore, painfully remains "in" because of "NECESSITY."

"Christ was hanged on a tree. He was cursed, as Paul also said. He was cursed by hanging on the tree because he took all the sins of the world on himself. In doing so, he paid the ransom price for our sins, past, present and future. He defeated death, as God accepted him into heaven and today he LIVES, and is our redeemer.

When Jesus was dying on the cross, he said, "It is finished!" He fulfilled all of the keeping of these laws and God's plan for our salvation. There is no more work He, nor any of us can do to gain salvation. We can not be saved by his example. We are saved by his shed blood.

That is the beautiful story of the Gospel of Christ. I am eternally thankful that God made a way for us to be saved. Jesus, alone, is that way, not a form of fellowship or following a set of rules."

Eph 2:8,9 holds the key! We need to BELONG to Jesus. That verse, Eph. 2:8,9, is specific and tells us it is only because of God's GRACE that we can be saved. Our faith + God's Grace regarding Christ's sacrifice for our sins = our ticket to Heaven. HE took OUR sins UPON HIMSELF. AND IT IS DONE! We cannot DO anything (nothing!!!!) to earn, merit or win God over so that we will be acceptable to Him. We can only receive HIS FREE Gift of Salvation. And NO MEDIATORS ARE NECESSARY. Christ's blood took care of it! He said on the Cross "It is finished."

Again: Our faith + God's Grace regarding Christ's sacrifice for our sins = our ticket to Heaven. HE took OUR sins UPON HIMSELF. He has removed our sins.

>>>Yes, I can see that more than ever now. However, what do see as "our Service to God." There are some versus in the Bible that would indicate something is required of us, even though those works don't actually save us. Such as "Faith without works is dead" and those that endure to end "they shall be saved."

Yes, you are right. Works DON'T save us. When a person accepts Jesus as his or her personal savior (thus being Born Again) the Holy Spirit sort of takes over. *He* (the H.S.--because *He* is part of the Godhead) prompts us into ACTION--hence the WORKS. When a person belongs to Christ/God he or she is MOTIVATED to *do.* This *do* is the works! "Faith without works is dead" is indicating that someone who CLAIMS to belong to Christ and yet doesn't do a thing FOR Him can't possibly belong to Him! Our "works" are the evidence that we belong to Christ.

But lets say we PRETEND to belong to Christ and we *do* to look good in front of others! Does this count with God? I rather doubt it! You see, the different is, when we are REALLY born again GOD PROMPTS US TO *DO.* When God is the one who "causes us to *do* for Him" not only does HE get the glory but it is really not difficult, at all, for us to *do.*

Christians believe that all who have accepted Christ are called into some type of a ministry. And this seems to be true, from what I've observed. These "ministries" that God calls Christians into are the *do* that I'm referring to!

Sorry if I'm repeating myself. I want to clearly state that when God gives us a *do* or a 'ministry' it is NO BURDEN to carry out that God-given privilege/responsibility.

What can these ministries be like? Well, maybe someone is motivate to visit folks in hospitals. I know a Christian lady who has visited folks in hospitals three times a week for over 20 years--she felt motivated by God to do this very nice thing. And I know that she was happy to do it. It has NOT been a burden to her.

Some people PRAY. And guess what? Maybe no one in the world knows about this person's ministry but they will continue praying for others the world over and this is because God has given them this desire to pray. They do NOT feel they HAVE TO.

Maybe someone volunteers in a food/shelter place. God shows them that they have the time and skills to help others.

Maybe someone writes Christian literature to help others come to Christ.

Some folks feel called to sing in a choir or musical group either at their church or in several churches, and on and on.

(You might like to read 1 Cor. chapter 12.)

Also, ALL CHRISTIANS are called to share the message of salvation with others unlike in the "Truth" where the workers do most of the evangelizing. Mark 16:15 "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." (The word "gospel" does not refer to a system. It refers to the fact that Christ DIED for our sins; that He was BURIED; and that He ROSE AGAIN. Refer to 1 Cor. 15 1 - 4)

It may look to others like people are doing these things to get "points" with God and even to IMPRESS Him so they will go to heaven. And, of course, if they are not prompted by God to do these things it is all a sham! But for those who are motivated to do these things it is wonderful. WONDERFUL for the person because they are not HAVING to do these things rather they WANT to do these things BECAUSE *GOD* has given them this opportunity.

I can tell you that when I professed I did not always WANT to go to meeting. I did not always WANT to go to a "sing" when I was invited. I did not always WANT to have the workers over for a meal or to stay over. I did NOT *WANT* to abide by the dress code! I did not always WANT to take in a "full" convention. But guess what? I *HAD* to! Why? Because of the pressure from the group. The grape vine works so well! And to NOT attend all these things showed a "lack of faith!" A bunch of man-made "have-tos" and supposedly because I was doing it for God and/or for my salvation! It seems in the "Truth" so much was done by "gritting one's teeth" and "grinning and bearing it" by doing as one was told (even if by innuendo) or by "putting on a show" for others whether or not we ARE/WERE really motivated by God. It all seems to be about "have-to" and not out of love for Christ and wanting to!

Now, with my personal relationship with God/Jesus when I *do* for Him it is because I am motivated by HIM to *do.* It is easy, wonderful, spontaneous and HE gets all the credit for motivating me to do what He wants me to do! And furthermore I am DRIVEN to do as He asks me. (All of this is the prompting of the Holy Spirit who is, in fact, God) I am affiliated with Christ! What I do for HIM is BECAUSE of the Holy Spirit prompting me, not the prompting of any peer pressure! I am in a completely open and liberating relationship with Christ, my God and Savior.

Oh, I just realized I did not address your question on "those that endure to end they shall be saved".

Mark 13:13 says: "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

The workers love this one! (Mark 13:13) And *IF* salvation was about being *in* a system this would seem to apply. I don't believe He was talking about the 2x2 "Way" because I don't believe that "Way" started until about 1897!

Jesus was the one speaking in Mark 13. So what could He mean about "enduring" or "he who stands firm" (as the Life Application Bible states) unto the end?

What does God require? He requires that we BELIEVE that Jesus took our sin upon Himself. He wants us to "endure" in our belief that He is the One who took care of our salvation by His death on the cross. Obviously Christ knew, when he made His statement in Mark 13:13, that He would be dying for the sin's of the world. I believe He was stressing that we must continue on believing that He died for our sins; that our belief must endure.

And in fact, the LIVING BIBLE puts Mark 13:13 this way: "And everyone will hate you because you are mine. But all who endure to the end without renouncing me shall be saved." The key words, of course, are "without renouncing Me."

"The purpose of fellowship is to edify, uplift, and encourage one another in pursuit of godliness. If where you gather, this is not being accomplished . . . GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!

FELLOWSHIP should not be to save someone or to bring someone to Christ or to right their misconceptions. Our purpose in fellowship is for the mutual benefit of worshipping together and experiencing God as a body. In that atmosphere GOD can do these other things! We were not experiencing fellowship while in the 2x2's. After some time and much prayer, our decision was to leave.

In my opinion a person should only change where they are (2x2's or someplace else) after God has clearly directed them to do so. My answer to the question put to anyone "How can you stay?" is: "God has not made it clear to leave yet." For those that are still among the 2x2's, my prayer is that they are there because they are asking God for direction and He has left them there. I hope that it is not because they are afraid to leave. For those that have left, my prayer is that it was with God's direction and they continue to seek His direction."

"I guess the one thing I never realized is how LUCKY I was...I came out of the 2x2's and fell right into a great church that was biblically centered in every way. Here, for the first time in my life, I found people who knew what they believed--and were joyful because of the assurance they had. Of course, at first I was suspicious that they were being "prideful," after all, who could be so sure of having God's favour? To a truther, this was always perceived as the "wrong spirit." How dare they be so bold as to say they were "saved"?!! But we know that this is what the 2x2's had taught..."no one outside of THIS way could possibly be right in their church...they are all WORLDLY." Somehow the Holy Spirit was able to break through all the brain-washing and conditioning I received from the 2x2's to let me know I had really found the truth. Not everyone who leaves the 2x2's are so lucky...some are very confused and even resentful to God after getting out. Perhaps they knew something was wrong...but they might not know for a while what exactly it was that made them leave. Even sadder are those that leave only to get messed up in another legalistic church or sect, leaving them in just as much bondage as they were when they were in the "truth." And so, I think, the best thing to do is give them our stories, our trials, but most of all, give them a taste of the assurance that we now have in Christ that we never had in the "truth."