Hi all. I am going through the stage of letting my parents know that I am exiting. It is the hardest thing that I have ever had to do. I hate knowing what I am doing to them. Through their belief I am being deceived by the devil and I am heading for hell. I don't know how to tell other people why I have quit. What do I tell the workers? What do I tell relatives? What do I tell other friends my age? How do I tell them that it is a huge combination of things that have finally merged now? How do I tell them that I see the 2x2 system so much differently? How do I tell them that I see the 2x2's as a mind controlling cult system? If we ignore all of the things in the 2x2's that have been created by mans interpretation of the bible what is left? I don't know what I believe anymore. My heart has been very shaken and it feels like I have to deprogram and start from scratch. I just don't know what to feel. help help help - Andrew Wilson [not my real name]

Andrew,

You have taken the words right out of my mouth. I have got tears running
down my face as I write. I just want to give you a BIG <<HUG>> I told my
mum that I was going to leave, she just walked off and not talked since. I
know they don’t understand and how do you explain when you don’t know what to
say and what you do say they feel you have been influenced by the world. I
don’t know how to pick up the pieces of my life. I don’t know how I should
even live anymore. I hope I’m not depressing you more, my heart really feels
for you.   23/9/99    - Michelle    wwl99@hotmail.com      

Hi Andrew:

I was touched by your post and can completely relate to what you are
feeling. When I left the group a year ago and even now, I am sad about
the grief and pain I have brought to my dear mother who is very devoted
to the way. She strongly believes that she came to the end of herself
almost 30 years ago and begged God to show her His way in the earth.
And He showed her the "Truth." Who am I to invalidate her experience.
We still love each other and are both grieved that our beliefs are different.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's no way it will be easy
for you to do this. But I would advise being gentle. I'm still not
sure just what I believe, but I do know that I DO NOT believe the 2x2
way is the only true way. And until the group as a whole does not
believe that, I think it would be dishonest of me to be part of it. As
for what you will say to others, you may be surprised to find, as I did,
that nobody asks you any questions or contacts you at all. And if you
happen to see them, they will talk about anything BUT your spiritual
beliefs.

I believe that God understands that we are all on a journey and we're
trying to get closer to Him. My belief that He loves me even more than
I love my own child is what comforts me and eliminates the fear. I wish
you all the best on your journey.   Much love,   ****     23/9/99     

Dear Michelle and Andrew,

I do not think there are any words that will bring
much comfort right now but I hope that knowing there
are so many of us here who have been through what you
are experiencing now helps a little. There are many
of us praying for you and empathizing with you.

I think the pain of telling our parents, family and
friends is the hardest thing for most of us when we
exit. I am 37, married, and have children of my own
and telling my family that I was leaving the only
church they believe will get us to heaven was the
hardest thing I have ever done in my life.(My husband
left at the same time and he faced the same issues.)
The monumental task of telling friends we had gone to
meeting with all of our lives was unbelievably painful
A lot of the pain comes from the fact that we feel we
are the cause of suffering for those we love, doesn't it?

No one can tell you how to do this. I wish there was
a set of instructions. I will tell you what helped us
as I'm sure others will do too, and you will need to
find what works the best for you. My husband and I
got counseling immediately from a good Christian
counselor (who happened to be a neighbor). We began
attending services the following Sunday at a local
church he recommended. We were scared to death to go
to what we had been taught all our lives was a false
church of the devil but we knew that for us it was
vitally important to have a structure of loving,
supportive people and a good pastor to help us get
through this experience. Our pastor helped us get
right into a small group fellowship so we didn't feel
lost in the shuffle in this big church. I will give
you one recommendation, be honest! Tell people what
you are going through so they can help you and love
you through this. We felt like such "weirdos" but
found that there are many like us who have exited
various cults and struggled with their families etc..

We found that it helped a lot to write an exit letter.
We needed some closure before moving on with our
lives. In our letter we stated the doctrinal
differences that made us feel we could no longer stay
and we also poured out our love for family and friends
and told them we would like to stay in contact with
anyone who desires. We made it very clear we were not
offended or angry, just determined to follow truth.

Our first Sunday out the pastor prayed to ABBA Father.
(Mk 14:36,Rom. 8:15, Gal. 4:6) I didn't know what that
meant but found out it means "Daddy God", an _expression
of an especially close relationship. That was such a
comfort to me. The way I prayed then, through my
pain, with no words, was to picture myself crawling
into God's lap and laying my head on His chest and
crying like my heart would break. I did receive the
comfort I asked for, it was like God put a fence
around us for awhile. We only received a couple of
letters expressing regret at our leaving and no
workers contacted us. I was not offended, I felt
protected. We were able to have some space to heal.

My heart goes out to you. Every day will get easier,
every week and month better still and a year even
better. We feel happy, healthy and whole praise God
and are praying the same for you.

Love and prayers to you both,

Kathleen    
23/9/99           

P.S. We have been out for 16 months. 

Hi all,
Michelle and Andrew, look to Jesus. He loves you and he is your strength.
I know when you are feeling so alone and your emotions are in a turmoil, it
is easy to forget the truth of God's word. His promises are for you. He is
love and he will never forsake you. Rest in the assurance that you are God's
children and he is looking out for your well being. One thought that I read
recently.

Grace is when we get what we don't deserve. Mercy is when we don't get what
we do deserve.

Much love in God's grace,
Deb    
23/9/99   

Andrew,

I recently found myself in the midst of the same dilemma you currently face. I knew that it would be very difficult to explain my P.O.V. to my parents and other family members. I knew that they would interrupt me and argue with me when I tried to explain. So.....I sat down at my computer and typed up a list of reasons why I was leaving with an explanation for each one. This was not a complete list--I think I included fewer than twenty of the many many reasons. I pointed out differences between their "doctrine" and the Bible. I emphasized that Jesus was all about love, not legality. Also that many of their traditions have NOTHING to do with anything biblical at all. Many of their interpretations are just that, interpretations. I pointed out that Jesus dined with publicans and sinners, so he probably wouldn't have objected to a few Catholics and Baptists--as they do. The sheer snobbery and biblical ignorance of the "truth" is astounding. I pointed out that hiding information, of discouraging people from learning is a propagandist tool used by the likes of Adolf Hitler. This is not all that I said, but you get the idea.

So my point is--that it may be easier for you to write them a letter explaining your reasons and your pain, and then hand it to them and tell them that they should ask you if there is anything they don't understand. You will probably find that in exiting, you may find yourself speaking to your family and it sounds like all parties involved are speaking English, but you're not talking the same language! "Friends" are a culture unto themselves and have their own language--just like some words in America have different meanings for the exact same words in Britain or Australia. Clarify terms. Define commonly used expressions like "Gospel" "way" "truth" etc. The Bible says that Jesus is the way, but when they think of the way, they think of a set of traditions like the workers, the meetings etc. My father can barely separate Jesus from the 2x2 tradition. And he's a very intelligent man. SO I wish you the best and hope that you are able to communicate with your loved ones.

Whitney

P.S. Communication results only when SHARED meaning is achieved. 23/9/99

Dear Andrew and  Michelle
No matter what we do in this life, remember our lives belong to God. He is
our Creator.
Because of His great love for us His Son died for us on the cross, the death
of a criminal, and He was innocent, but he still died for EACH ONE of us.
This became personal and individual, so we as individuals can say "I am His,
I am purchased with the blood of Christ. I am responsible only to the Father."
I know the human element is very strong and we have family and friends who
care about us, and we appreciate this very much. But just think about what
effect your stepping out may have in the future, even though you may not
feel this way now, seeing people hurt and upset and disappointed and even
angry about your move. But God is REAL and He will never be angry, hurt,
upset and disappointed over you because HE LOVES YOU with an EVERLASTING
LOVE! In the long term, it will be right.
"If we could see beyond today as God can see. The clouds would all soon
pass away, the shadows flee.
We do not see what lies in store, and so we cling to Him the more.
We do not see, we do not know, we often say, but God in love a veil doth
throw across our way."
These words are from a beautiful song I love, and which has encouraged me
many times, I hope you find encouragement also. I know from experience that
I found that I had to say "It's God and me!"
The only time we read of Jesus using the word "must" was when he said "Ye
must be born again." This experience is essential to be born into His
family, and when this happens in our lives we are HIS! This doesn't make us
love our family and friends any less, but it gives us a greater love towards
them.

"This life I have is yours Lord, please take it today and do with it as you
please."

Lots of Love to you both

Rose Perry    	
23/9/99

I am so appreciative of the posts today to Michelle and Andrew. It shows
such a loving spirit on this forum and characteristics of a very vibrant
SUPPORT GROUP. I have found the posts on this subject so worth saving that
I have created a special folder to keep them.    
Sincerely, Jane     23/9/99         

Dear ****, Michelle and Andrew:
Along with many others on the list your letters take us all back
to where you are now. We know the pain, loneliness and quandary you are in.
Please know that we care and will be in prayer for you.

**** you wrote:
"I am sad about the grief and pain I have brought to my dear mother 
who is very devoted to the way. She strongly believes that she came to the 
end of herself almost 30 years ago and begged God to show her His way in 
the earth. And He showed her the "Truth." Who am I to invalidate 
her experience."

When I left 9 years ago at the age of 66 I told my sister when
we were moving away to another state that I was not going back to
meeting. She was incredulous and said, "Dot. remember our mother's
testimony." Later I wrote that mother's testimony was hers and we
siblings fell heir to it. We didn't have that testimony. We can't 
invalidate their experience, we don't have to. We NOW have an experience 
of our own.

My mother died about 6 months before I left the 2x2's. I don't
know how I could have handled to hurt her so. But my daughter left the
year before I did and she, like you, went through what you are going
through.   Yes, I grieved for her, I shed many tears, I was angry at 
her but slowly, kindly, lovingly she quoted some scripture to me, offered 
the Secret Sect and other things to read. Helped me via letter to study 
the book of John, a great book to begin to study when you don't know 
where to turn. In a few months I was into deep bible study and when I 
understood the Grace concept and that works were not acceptable to God 
for salvation it was the light I needed to set me free. So remember 
sometimes roles reverse, children CAN help their parents. Please remember 
this and be encouraged by possible ways God has in store for you to do 
the same.

My love and prayers are with you. Please keep us updated.
Dot Berry
23/9/99

Dear Andrew and Dear Michelle

There is no doubt, the hardest part of leaving for me by a large large margin was telling my mom and sisters that I would no longer be going to meeting. I think it was the hardest thing in my life so far. And this for a guy who had been away from home for some 21 years at the time, held senior positions in business, etc.

Like you, I also HATED knowing what they were experiencing as a result of my choice, and perhaps worst of all, hated that there was just no way for them to understand my decision, no way for them to step into my shoes and see the world as I now saw it. That was so hard, and it remains hard still. But they did understand that it wasn't to hurt them that I was making this choice, and that was commented on in the process. Perhaps because I did it as gently as I possibly could, and acknowledged that it would be hard for them.

Perhaps the following will take some pressure off of you regarding the process of leaving. Although many seem to feel there was value in having well thought out doctrinal reasons etc all ready to explain their leaving, I personally did/do not attach so much importance to this. Unfortunately, people choosing to remain in the 2x2 need to find their own reasons for why you left. Your reasons, no matter how eloquently presented and logical in nature can not be accepted, as they have led you to a conclusion of leaving the group, a conclusion that to those remaining in itself negates all your reasons and logic. So I personally do not feel you should feel particularly pressured to have everything about religion all thought out before you tell people, because your reasons will not matter to most. In fact, much to my surprise... NOT ONE friend has asked me for my reasons for leaving. Perhaps because my wife and I are nearing 40, we may have escaped some of the pressure that others experienced from friends and family.

You may be surprised (as we, and others we personally know who have left were) at how little current friends will want to know about your leaving, with the possible exception of immediate family or if you still have some very close friends in it. They really do not want to know anything but the reasons they find in their own mind for your decision, because to take into their minds your reason would mean that they have to question and doubt their own belief, ...and they are just not going to go there usually.

If you do decide to give reasons, certainly speak from the heart more than the intellect (that is pretty hard for anyone not to respect), and for most that you are not really close to, if a reason is necessary at the moment...a simple "I just don't believe it any more" may suffice.

So for family and close friends, my own advice (only based on my own personal experience and situation, and your situation may be totally different!!!) is to:

1) just be very gentle and caring in your approach as possible. It is not your wish to hurt them, and your manner can convey this, and help make it apparent that it is their choice how they choose to react to it and how much distance they want to create between you and them.

2) Acknowledge that you know this is hurting them, and tell them that for you that is the hardest part of leaving, (that will help validate their feelings, and acknowledging your emotions will make it so much easier for you in the moment)

3) Be firm in your decision and your _expression of it once you have made it... as waffling or showing doubt in your decision will continue the pressure to keep you in longer, continue the invites to meetings, and prolong the emotional turmoil. I found that for me, it was necessary to be firm, and take full accountability for my self, not blame it on anyone else, on circumstance, on influences of others, etc. That seems the cleanest and most honest and easiest for others to respect. The process for me was harder than it needed to be until I realized this and wrote a firm letter expressing this. Then it got much better.

There will be lots of time to talk about doctrine, different paths of beliefs etc in detail in the future with immediate family if you all choose. The immediate need is to let them get through the shock and grief and not make that phase as brief as possible.

I have had the unfortunate task a few times of having to let people go from employment. One of things they teach you when you are facing the need to do this, is that there is nothing to be gained by arguing about "why" right there at the time. The important thing is to just get through the initial shock and moment quickly and with as much dignity as all can make possible. Afterwards, once that is dealt with, and the raw emotions of the moment passed a bit, discussion becomes possible. This may be days later. Perhaps there are some parallels in telling ones family about leaving the religion in this. In some ways, if it is especially sensitive and emotionally charged, it may be just as well to have the basic facts delivered quickly, even by a phone call, then let people alone for a little bit so they can come to terms a bit with it before more in depth discussion takes place after emotions have died down. I'm not saying this is the way you should do it... it is just another alternative, and you should choose the method that makes it easiest for yourself and your family in your own situation, as you know your own family best. Sometimes we have this idea that it is a horrible thing we are doing to them, and because of this it should be hard and difficult for us. That idea itself may help make it so, may encourage us to set it up so that it is very emotionally charged and difficult. Personally though, I think we should be thinking about how to cause the least pain and hardship, to both ourselves and the others. There is nothing to be gained by making it harder than it is already.

Yes, your posts really reminded me of how hard that moment of letting my family know of my choice was. But also reminded me of how even through the sadness I felt for what my family was experiencing, I could also recognize that it was also a great turning point in my life. It felt peaceful and powerful to be allowing myself to be a whole person. And, the relief was great when it was done and out in the open.

Our thoughts are with you. Jim A 23/9/99

I've read on this list the experience of others that have to explain why they're leaving and in most cases it seems to me, it isn't as bad as what we imagine. As far as explaining your reasons, though you feel obliged to, in most cases your explanation won't mean anything to those inside anyway . I've found it much easier and profitable, to just tell them I've decided to leave and leave it at that. It's the only thing those still professing can understand, and, if you put yourself in their shoes, it's the only thing they could understand! FWIW Ed Service 23/9/99

Like others, Michelle & Andrew, my heart breaks for each of you because I,
too have been there, done that.

Like _____, (thanks for a great post - do it more often ?!) this may seem
cold but you are at a point in your life where you need to worry about YOU.
There isn't much you can say to explain your exit to those still in the 2x2
way because they either can't or won't understand. What's important right
now is YOU - don't worry about them. Tell the truth in love & leave it at
that because it's the best/most you can do.

My leaving caused a 3 year long silence with a member of our family. She was
very critical of my leaving & voiced this abroad, claiming all kind of dire
things would happen. After 3 years, she extended an "olive branch" of
reconciliation which we eagerly grasped & interestingly enough, we now have a
better relationship with her now then we did when we were still in the
fellowship.

I wanted to share part of a letter a very good friend wrote to their families
when they left. It very gently states the truth in love:

"Try & understand that to us leaving the fellowship didn't equal leaving God.
He is very much the center of our home. He reigns in our hearts and He gives
our life meaning, our marriage life and our children a constitution....
As a family, we have pledged to live life on purpose, not by default...
We want to challenge, to question, to grow, to learn, to be curious...
We want to get out of our comfort zone more often...
We want to constantly re-evaluate our life in order to keep
Christ-centered....
We want to be constantly renewing our minds whenever it is "now", to be
transformed, not conformed...
We want to change our minds when ideas no longer fit a need or purpose...
We want truth to be more important than a belief system...
We want what is real to be more important than how things look...
We want to be motivated by love for our Redeemer instead of fear of
consequences...
We want to get our worth and value from God our Savior....."

Enough said, Good Night. You are in my thoughts,    Susan Howard    23/9/99

Dear Andrew and Michelle,

My heart responds to the cry of "help." Andrew, you said, in part; >>"I don't know what I believe anymore. My heart has been very shaken and it feels like I have to deprogram and start from scratch. I just don't know what to feel."<<

I have experienced what you are describing. In retrospect, I now understand this part of my journey as a very important and necessary, preliminary step to greater understanding. What has happened to you so far is that you know what was not fulfilling but you have yet to understand where to go from here to be fulfilled. You have let go of the only security blanket you've ever known and you're determined to never again swallow, without question, what others tell you is "truth."

As _____ so wisely said recently, "we need to know why we do what we do." I would expand on that thought and say 'we need to know why we say what we say.' Put another way, we need to distinguish thought from experience and we need to put experience before beliefs. Belief is not faith. As Leslie Dewart in The Future of Belief: Theism in a World Come of Age said, "Belief must bear directly upon the reality of God, not upon words or upon concepts. God reveals himself, not words about or concepts of himself." We need to live first what we than seek to explain. Unfortunately, too often the cart, filled with assumptions, is put before the horse and we set out to conform to these assumptions.

And so, I would look at this "deprogramming and starting from scratch" stage as something similar to Plato's proverbial cave experience. I would look at this stage of uncertainty as something positive. And I would resist with all the integrity in me any dogmatism from immature people who feel their certainty is being threatened. I wish you well in your journey. Sincerely, S. M. 23/9/99

Dear Michelle and Andrew, may God bless you, and may you discover the perfect will of God for your life. Sheila 23/9/99

Hi Michelle. Isn't it so great to realize that we are not alone in our struggle? Isn't it wonderful the amount of support that we have received from people who have been where we are now? Isn't it amazing the support that we have from people that we do not know? Isn't it good to know that we have people there to help us when some/all of our relatives won't support us in our decision? To all who have written responses to Michelle and myself :-) THANK YOU :-). To all who have responded to us in other ways eg through prayer :-) THANK YOU :-). I requested help and you have certainly responded. Some of my family is supportive and now they are the ones who I am closer to. Others of my family refuse to see things with an open understanding mind. I feel sorry for them and the hurt that I have caused but I understand that their minds are being controlled without them realising it. They cannot accept my opinions without trying to justify themselves. The meetings drove me away from God and why they cannot see that I do not know. Fear kept me in the meetings. "My yoke is easy and my burden is light". Jesus wants to make it easy for us and he did not want us to be burdened down with the strict rules imposed upon us by a system created by man. When I stopped going to the meetings one burden was lifted. When I told my parents my decision another burden was lifted. There are still more burdens to go. I look forward to a better day when I am totally free from the system that I grew up in. I have never received so much love and encouragement in my life and now I know what it means to have so many people who care for me. Andrew Wilson [not my real name] 23/9/99

My heart goes out to Andrew and Michelle. It hasn't been that long since I was in your position but looking back on it, I see it a little differently than you do. Andrew you spoke about not knowing what to do and your fear of how others would react. From my side of the journey, it wasn't reactions that were painful it was the total lack of reactions. For a lot of people I just ceased to exist. Even with my own family I feel like the communication became pretty one-sided for awhile and that may be just as hard to deal with. But time has a way of healing things.

I also have been thinking a bit about victimhood. Personally I am beginning to think that the greatest damage the 2x2 system did to me was to make me believe I was set apart from the rest of the world. The fact is that healing for me has come through the growing realization that I am just like everybody else. Sure we each have different experiences but we also have commonalties. I am finding that I like myself and everybody else when I realize that we all face many of the same challenges. Thoughts anybody? ? ?

Andrew and Michelle, you will be in my prayers. Bob Mcphail 24/9/99

Hi everyone who may be interested in an update from me. I went to a lesson last night about the basic outline of cults. The guy taking the class is well aware of the things that happen in cults and he has taken part in court cases proving that various religions are cults. He has done a huge amount of research personally and he knows about the 2x2 system. I asked him "Do you believe that this religion is a cult?", he replied "Yes".

It was a very profitable lesson for me as he went through the typical characteristics of a cult and how they operate. He went through how any outsider can become drawn into a cult system. The more that I understood the more I realised that the 2x2's is a cult.

I would like somebody to try and prove it is not a cult but there is nobody who can because it is impossible.

Some people say what is wrong with a harmless cult? My answer to that would be what cult is harmless? They use mind controlling techniques to change your beliefs and control your actions and reactions. You end up believing in the leaders and following everything that they say even if it means rejecting reality.

If God had a judgment day and he said to you "you followed your leaders very diligently with good intentions but you did not follow me" how would you feel to know that you spent your whole lifetime following men but not following God?

Growing up in this cult and exiting has taught me to be more careful of what I become involved in. It has taught me to "try the Spirits" to see if they have actually come from God or from some other source. I do not believe what is put in front of me unless it can be proven beyond any doubt or if I have experienced it myself. I certainly do not believe the single sided information that has been drummed into me from birth.

I spend a lot more time talking about myself and how I am feeling now. This is helping me to cope with the situation that I find myself in. It is also helping me to deal with the issues that I have suffered from and helping me to move on in life which is very important.

"Andrew" 29/9/99

"Andrew and Michelle really hit a nerve didn't they? In spite of all the different religious POV's on this list this is one thing we ALL have in common, our "leaving story". It was so healing for me to read of other's experiences and how similar they all are. What a blessing."

"I was amazed to find all these people who share the same feeling and struggles. I had always felt so alone before I joined the list. Everyone has helped me more than they realise."

"I have read through the VOT site too many times to count, it helped me so much. So anything you wish to add which might help others in the 2x2 is pre-approved with me!"

"With an ever increasing number of people exiting now, I wonder in 10 years time what will be left of the 2x2's. I had been told that every person on the web are angry exes with an ax to grind. I don't see angry people here! They are just victims like myself who want to be a help to others who don't realise they need help."

"As regards my leaving the meetings NO ONE, not a worker, not one of the "friends" (ha!) nor any of my family outside my own house has ever asked me for a explanation! I haven't offended any of them to my knowledge but to most of the ones I for years had fellowship with it's as though I don't exist anymore! I had considerable respect for those professing after I quite and certainly don't think I've done anything to deserve this kind of treatment from "the lords" (ha!) people!"

"Thanks for all of your help and encouragement to everyone out there searching and hurting."