We did not learn there was an earthly founder other than Jesus, until 6 years ago. We had been told all our lives that the way started in the New Testament days, 1900 years ago. Neither of our parents had ever heard about the founder. Can you imagine how we felt when we learned it was less than 100 years old?? - 1996

I was ELATED to learn about William Irvine and the Secret Sect because that was evidence that my suspicions were right! That information became, for me, the beginning of the end and on to freedom in Christ! ‘96

Walker and Carroll nearly pulled it off. Thankfully Doug Parker did the necessary research, at no small expense I'm sure, and many of us are free today BECAUSE of Doug and Helen's efforts. I believe that Christians are called by God into different types of ministries. I have no doubt that THE SECRET SECT was written because God prompted and directed the Parkers to do so.

I was totally blown away a couple months ago when I found out about William Irvine for the first time. 1996

Learning the truth about the fellowship is like having a marriage rocked by an adulterous partner. It takes time to ever trust again. Some never do.

When I finally found out about the history, everything clicked. The reason it wasn't perfect or the same was because it was made up by a man. Now THAT, I can tell you made sense! Then I began to try to reconcile: How can it be the only way if it was started by a man? I couldn't reconcile it.

The shock of finding out that everything I "knew" was true was based on lies was like finding out that 2 +2 = 5, which meant the whole equation of life was different.

You mentioned pieces of a puzzle earlier... that's exactly the case... there are so many little things that add up to one big false lie. The worst of it is that it's not all a lie, and can be confusing.

>>>>Did you know about Irvine before logging onto the web sites?

No. That was the first that I'd ever heard about him. I was in a state of shock, just reading page after page becoming even more shocked. I'd heard of possible beginnings in the British Isles, although I can only remember of one specific time hearing that.

About the time of our discovery that the "friends" didn’t believe that Jesus is God, I woke up to the fact that I was following a "way" and not THE WAY: JESUS CHRIST. I saw how I was obeying men (workers) rather than God.

People are leaving in droves as they find out about the history. I usually learn about new people leaving every WEEK, and much of the time, it is because they discovered the deception over the history!

>>>How right you are but I was one of the exceptions. First I didn't believe it was from the start and second I had not read or been told much. It was simply that too many (all) workers were twisting the biblescripture and presenting a false way to obtain salvation. It just continues on the same. Had ENOUGH

In answer to your question for the main reason for leaving; I would say YES--learning about the beginning did it for me! Learning that some guy in another land started this way that I was told had no founder except Jesus and the apostles DEFINITELY was my starting point to seriously know what I had suspected all along! I can say with near certainty that had I not read THE SECRET SECT and learned of William Irvine I would likely still be trying my best--trying my best not only to hang in there but trying my best to believe it was from the beginning. I believe Doug Parker was used of God in the research and writing of that book!

Yes I'd have to say finding out about the history & the deception of the history certainly sprung me out!

I'm not sure how much of the history of the beginning of the group had to do with me leaving the fellowship but I'll try to analyze it here for myself and others. I first had problems with the 'legalistic' part of the group. All those, 'thou shall and thou shall not" that had no scriptural basis in the Bible. However, that in itself was one thing, BUT the attitude that came across was totally another. The judgmental, nasty attitude really GOT to me.This from some workers and some friends. I couldn't see love and concern—merely use of authority--during this time. Please remember that usually this was not directed at me or my family but for the most part at others! All this majoring in the minors really crushed my spirit first. We struggled with this for at least 3 months and sat through a convention during this time. The situation didn't improve and we continued to see this. THEN we read the Secret Sect. To say we were disturbed was a gross understatement. I have to agree with what _____ said in an earlier post about honesty. I value honesty in a person very highly. Therefore it was terribly hard for me to accept that I had been lied to about the beginning. And not just me but how about everyone I knew in the fellowship. Only one or two people admitted that they had read the book and then only when we were in the process of leaving. They had never breathed a word of it to us. We were extremely disillusioned with the group after we had read and examined the book. Then came the time when we began reading our Bibles like never before. We searched from cover to cover about different things we had believed to be true. (meetings in home, ministry going 2x2, appearance issues)Then came some sessions with the workers. We asked questions but never felt we really got answers. We got the same sort of judgmental attitudes we'd seen used against others in the beginning of this quest. We asked people whose opinions we had valued in the past--and we got anger, we got amazement that we'd even dare ASK questions, we got shunning from those still in the group. Our kids also received a lot of this and were told hateful things about us from family members.

Yes, the history of the group was very important. How could I believe those who had lied to me about them, when I was trusting these people to teach me about spiritual things? We heard from someone who had left in TX who had heard from some family members here in IN that "______ wants facts, facts, facts!" This wasn't said in a very nice voice as I understand it but I'm just amazed that with something as important as salvation FACTS wouldn't be considered important!

Here's a couple of analogies to show how some of us felt upon learning the history.

Suppose you were in the market for a good used car. You found one with extremely low mileage and purchased it from a reputable dealer, paying for it with ALL your life savings.The price was high, but you were willing to pay it because of the extremely low mileage factor. Later, evidence came to light which proved beyond all doubt that the mileage had been falsely represented at the time of sale. The car actually had 200,000 more miles than the odometer registered. Would a judge let the seller off the hook on the grounds the false representation wasn't important since the buyer received his primary goal, that of transportation? Of course not! The buyer didn't get the main advantage he paid extra for-low mileage. No judge or jury would buy the reasoning that the mileage wasn't important-not for a minute. Nor would they kick out the hard evidence as unimportant or irrelevant that proved the false representation.Yet the reply the workers seem to be giving most often these days to questions about the history by who those who thought this group "was from the beginning" is that it isn't important when/how it started. We say: IT IS TOO IMPORTANT-THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HISTORY IS PROOF WE WERE LIED TO!

Minimizing a sin or crime doesn't change the fact one was committed. We thought we were buying into the authentic original way Jesus started, and instead find we were sold a mess of pottage for our very LIVES, and further, we can't get our money back! We can't replace those lost years, can't relive our child hoods, can't erase all our needless suffering, and that we caused our children. We did NOT buy into it because it was the closest way (or transportation). The mileage would not be an important factor, IF the true mileage had been honestly stated prior to the sale. Likewise, the history would not be an important factor, IFthe truth surrounding the origin of the fellowship had been honestly given to us BEFORE we chose to walk in it. The sin of omission is in evidence here.

Suppose you bought a painting with the understanding that it was an original by a world famous artist. You later find out it was not painted by that particular artist after all. You still have a painting, but what is its value? It's not worth what you thought it was when you believed it was an original, one-of-a kind. Is it better than any others? The only way to know is to compare it with other similar works and their values. If you knew your friends were being conned by a con artist into buying a fake painting, wouldn't you warn them?? Many of us feel we were defrauded--spiritually defrauded. We were in an identical place in the fellowship. Some of us believed we alone were in the ONLY genuine apostolic NewTestament church, and it turned out to be a fake. Denying the historical facts of Irvine's relationship to this fellowship while promoting it as being of apostolic succession or "from the beginning" or "New Testament days" is spiritual fraud.

When we discovered that the fellowship we were a part of for most of our lives had a founder (artist), it is only natural to wonder "What is the value of it?" It's not worth what we thought it was when we believed it was the original way of Jesus-but what IS its true value now? Is it superior to other paintings/churches? With the discovery of William Irvine, it no longer merits its elevated status above other churches, but is demoted to the class of churches with founders. Is this fellowship still God's only way to Heaven? Is it still the closest way? To find out, one must compare this fellowship with (1) the Scriptures, and (2) other similar belief systems.

Does knowledge of the true origins of this fellowship:

(1) Change the authority of the Scriptures?

(2) Change the nature of God in any way?

(3) Change the value of Christ's sacrifice?

(4) Change who you allow to be in authority over you?

(5) Change your beliefs about this fellowship?

(6) Change your beliefs about other churches?

(7) Change your beliefs about the workers?

So then, we encounter a host of questions! So we began to wonder: What does this knowledge about the history change? Where does one go from here? Does it make any difference? WHAT IS THE VALUE OF THIS FELLOWSHIP TO ME? Our discovery of the founder demanded a serious re-evaluation, and a possible realignment or change in our spiritual perspective and beliefs. We struggled with complex questions: "Is having a founder consistent with my other spiritual beliefs?" "What difference does it make that this fellowship has a founder?" and "How can this fellowship be God's only true way, when it has a human founder?" "Is it still the closest way?" The lives of many of the friends have been significantly altered by the way they choose to answer these questions. We haven't all answered them in the same way...

We weighed the pros and cons; and it was not of sufficient value for many of us to stay inthe group...in fact, many have come to view the group as evil.

I also went thru a time when I believed changes within the system would "fix things" and that God might use even me to that end. I loved so many of the friends and the workers. I HAD found good fellowship in the group. I had developed my personal relationship with my Lord while in the group... it had been my life; my most important (almost, at that point as a mom of small children and a housewife, my ONLY) relationships in life had been bound up in that group... and if it was not the ONLY way... perhaps it was still the BEST?... the closest to Scripture?

As someone else has mentioned in this forum already, this group was founded on deception. That deception continues. Many who SHOULD be biblically disciplined continue to be exulted and are given great authority within the group; many others who have been victimized are treated as "guilty" rather than receiving the help for healing they need... and all this for the sake of maintaining the PRETENSE of godliness.

I was greatly impressed by seeing photos in the Secret Sect. I knew for sure it was "us" when I saw convention photos--even though I'd never been to those conventions. And those line-ups of workers! Same yesterday and today!

In regards to knowing about how this way was started, I knew nothing. My mother had mentioned to me more than once that there were books out there that existed, but I would never let myself read them. I guess I naturally assumed anything but the "Truth" was false. What an eye opener it was to realize that the whole thing was false and that my eyes stayed more on the workers and friends than on God. It is so good to now know that God's gift can NEVER be taken from us. That there are no continual demonstrations needed, but to accept Christ as our Saviour! 6/97

Initially, like the good 2x2 that I was, I immediately turned defensive and was upset that these people could say such slanderous things about my belief system. I had been warned against people like this "the modern-day anti-Christ" that would come in, and make division amongst God's people. I did my best to put it out of my mind for as long as I could, even though I was extremely dissatisfied with other aspects of the group-especially the geographical discrepancies in doctrine/standards.

Later on this issue of "the beginning" resurfaced when I was trying to explain my belief system to a complete stranger, They pointed out the observation that my group sounded a lot like many other "anti formal church worship" groups that began around the same time period in the British Isles. I revisited the history of the group once more, and was completely overwhelmed by the sense of joy I felt to finally get some answers to the questions that had been plaguing me for so long. Now I realize why the group persists in tradition, rather than realizing the fullness of salvation in Jesus Christ. Mostly, I am angry that this important information about the origins of the group continues to be hidden from the members. I for one, can no longer live a lie. 6/97