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These Alberta incorporation papers for 2x2's are incredible!!
That they are now incorporated proves my assertion that they are merely on the natural progression of a religious group on the way to becoming a denomination. Overseeing workers have proclaimed for years they will never become incorporated.
I remember at a workers' convention in aside meetings the importance of not being incorporated ever was stressed! Absolute turn around! If this has been for some time, it has been kept very well hidden.
I was just thinking about what ______ said re: how the papers affect us?
Maybe they have a greater impact on us than on the active 2x2s. We KNOW there is deception, so this stirs us even more. The 2x2s will perhaps defend away the papers, and no doubt will receive counsel from the workers regarding how to deal with us.
But.....WE WILL KEEP PRAYING!!
I think that only the old timers and ex-workers will realize what a big change this incorporation is. Most people nowadays probably don't remember all the sermons we used to hear, mocking the large churches for owning property and being incorporated. The workers used to say they [other churches] weren't churches but businesses. It never occurred to me that I would ever see a certificate of incorporation signed by the workers!
It would be really interesting to know what prompted the decision to incorporate. It has been surmised that the workers probably have to do this in order to have a non profit status.
I am aghast that the church is incorporated in Alberta.
Anyone who really wants to look into it will find that the papers are totally legal, not a figment of our 'ex-one's' imaginations.
How could any of us have been so blind? The last convention I was at Willis Propp was brought by some Friends a great distance from his area by some folks I also met there.
They said they were chosen to bring him (Which they considered a great honor) because they were the only ones who had a nice enough car! That is paraphrased, but almost a direct quote. At that convention I wasshocked by what I saw resulting in my own opinion of his arrogant aloofness having once known him to be a different man.
That they are now incorporated proves my assertation that they are merely on the natural progression of a religious group on the way to becoming a denomination. Overseeing workers have proclaimed for years they will never become incorporated.
I remember at a workers convention in aside meetings the importance of not being incorporated ever was stressed! Absolute turn around! If this has been for some time, it has been kept very well hidden.
I was just reading over the incorporation papers off the web site. Under MEMBERSHIP, it states...
"Membership is personal and shall not be transferable. Membership of a person shall cease upon the death of that person."
The workers claim that their particular fellowship IS IN FACT "THE" body of Christ. I would certainly hope that my membership in the body of Christ does not cease upon my death. I believe that's when my membership will be FULLY realized and enjoyed!! When I'm set free from this mortal body!! Hallelujah!
I'm especially curious about reaction to the incorporation papers. Just got my copy of Forward Press. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck! If it looks like a business, and sounds like a business, must be a business! Sure came across like that in those papers.
This incorporation stuff is a lot more detailed and business-like than I had expected! VERY INTERESTING!!
I must say I found the reading of this to be a bit traumatic... it shakes the foundation of EVERYTHING _____ and I and our folks were raised to believe was the basis for "the Truth"!! I have so many questions!!
Resignation of "membership" must be delivered in writing!! Excommunication’s are admitted and a legal part of the incorporation by-laws (called "expelling")!!!
There's already been a special resolution passed changing the by-laws of "the Society." I won't quote all of the info under 1.g. regarding "special resolutions," however, it certainly looks like such resolutions are to be determined by a vote of the "members." Again, I ask, did that happen??
Finances... I find it interesting that "the Society guarantees [the Preachers/Apostles] free board and lodgings." Yet, "TheBelievers/Disciples shall live in their own quarters, take up their own employment and shall not be bound to any of the Society's financial obligations." ...so... where does that guarantee come from?? Who's going to fulfill it and how, if not by the Believers/Disciples? Sounds like more evidence of "Church Funds" to me.
Interesting, too, that "The Auditor shall keep or cause to be kept full and accurate accounts of all receipts and disbursements of the Society and proper books of account.... and shall render to the Board at the meetings thereof or whenever required of him an account of all financial transactions and of the financial position of the Society." and "Annual meetings are gatherings where all the local Members and visiting Members come together for a 3 or 4 day period to worship.... At every annual meeting, in addition to any other business that may be transacted, there shall be presented a financial statement setting out the Society's income, disbursements, assets and liabilities, audited and signed by the Society's Auditor." and, further "The books and records of the society may be inspected by any Member of the Society at the annual meeting...or at any time upon giving reasonable notice and arranging a timesatisfactory to the officer..."
It sounds like the accountability that other churches have, but that the2x2's have always disdained... is this REALLY going to happen?? (Or will anyone who asks to see that information be deemed "likely to endanger the interests or reputation of the Society" and, therefore, be "expelled from membership"??
Wow!! Absolutely INCREDIBLE!!! I cannot even begin to imagine that this is really going to happen... was this incorporation done in honesty and good faith? Do the other overseers in other areas know about it? Do any of the friends in Alberta or elsewhere know about it?!
On Willis Propp's letter written on Christian Convention stationery to a lawyer, he had typed under his signature:
ALBERTA SOCIETY OF CHRISTIAN ASSEMBLIES.
It never occurred to me that this was anything but pure bluff.
______, I enjoyed your comments about incorporation papers--pretty amazing, aren't they? It never entered my mind that it might possibly be the new route to honesty--I just figured there must be a good reason/motive--and my best guess is it has to do with the fund Willis Propp put himself in charge of. But there are gaps in that theory...what is the advantage? There must be one! I suspect Willis Propp's days are numbered. People are distributing these papers far and wide...
Your desire to tell others the real truth about the "truth" is a good thing. It's because you care. I understand how you feel. Yesterday I was telling my mother about the incorporation papers. She has attended meeting for 25 years, but is currently taking a break. Her biggest concern about the "truth" is she objects to the way they make people dress. Being lied to about the beginning of this way and the fact that the group has incorporated is of no concern to her. She likes the little 2x2 meetings in the home. Last night she told me that I left meeting 2 1/2 years ago, so why do I care anymore. Why don’t I just get on with my life? She told me the people in the "truth" are happy, and just leave them alone. It is so frustrating!!!!! 10/97
Wondering if anyone has heard Willis Propp's sermon where he covers the subjects of "standards" or "replicas" or "duplicates"?
If so, would someone please give a report? 1/97
Yes, we have heard about Willis Propps' sermon. We, along with at least several hundred other people, heard it directly from him at the Rogers, Arkansas convention on September 6, 1996.
For some time we planned to go to the Convention, which is very near the western border of Missouri and Arkansas. We planned to get there for the Thursday night meeting. We did not plan on extremely crooked roads with 25-45 mile speed limits across the northern part of Arkansas. As a result we did not get to Rogers until Friday morning meeting. Willis was scheduled to speak three times at that convention.
Willis was the featured speaker of that Friday morning meeting. For those who have not heard or seen him, he appears to be in his 70s, and has a distinguished "worker" look. He is the Head worker of the Province of Alberta, Canada. His presentation voice is not his normal conversational voice. He preaches in a near whisper. Of course that whisper is amplified by radio broadcast through the FM radio system which is apparently common at US conventions even though a US head worker, Charlie Mitchell, said that PA systems are "A tool of the devil."
He had a lengthy prelude to his "point" by telling of the weights and measures standards of Canada and the United States. The foundational statements were to the effect that every country has, in their capitol, a physical set of standards for the weights and measures for the nation. Each province and state has an exact duplicate, a"replica," of that original "standard." The original is the "standard" and there are "replicas" of that standard for use in each state or province to insure accurate enforcement.
The bottom line of this very lengthy presentation was this: In his words, "Jesus is the standard. The workers are the replicas of Jesus and the people are to follow the workers."
We could hardly believe our ears. This man proclaimed that he and his likes were duplicates of my Savior who came from and of God! They make themselves EQUAL to Jesus! We feel this is horrible. They can't die for people's sins, perform miracles, live perfect sinless lives, die on the cross, arise from their graves the third day after they are buried. It actually made us ill. We decided we could not attend any more of that convention.
At a later convention we asked the head worker about that comment. He said, "When Willis said that, I wondered how people would take it." We told him that we "took" it just the way it was said. The words "replica" and "duplicate" are not esoteric, we know what they mean. He did not respond.
One of Willis' other points was made when he preached against "denominations" that morning. We had a personal visit with Willis after the meeting and asked him about his anti-denomination comments in view of the "denominational" designation given to our fellowship. He and many other workers have documented our "name" (synonym: "denomination") by their use of his "Christian Convention" letterhead, and on his incorporation papers of yet another "denomination" (The Alberta Society). In response to our "Why?" he told us that a "name" was required by Germany during the war. Then we showed him a photocopy of his July, 1996 letter, on his letterhead, which was certainly not required by Germany in 1996. This brought an abrupt end to our conversation as he turned his back and walked away!. He was arrogant, not contrite. His actions remind us of a hand-in-cookie-jar situation. Had we done wrong in asking him about this?
We have some questions regarding the "incorporation." Willis took full responsibility but, in fact, he can not take responsibility for the other persons who signed the document. The questions remain, Why did the others sign the document? Were they so under Willis' influence/power that they could not refuse? Or did/do they agree with the proposition? Did they disagree, but signed it because he was their superior against whom they could not prevail? Were THEIR signatures fraudulently coerced? Who are the workers who Willis said he should have consulted which he calls his "senior" workers? Would they have approved? Apparently it is "approved" for South American denominational designations. We have been told, "We have no organization; this is an organism."
It seems that as a basic doctrine is: "We have no name! "We take no name! We will never take a name! - unless we are asked for it by any government or if it is convenient in any business dealings which work to our advantage. When we do this, we hide it from the people and tell them repeatedly "we have no name!" We tell it often enough and long enough and they will believe it is true. And, just for self-righteousness we give our fellowship the name of "THE TRUTH!" - but be sure to say, ‘We have no name!' "
The head worker of our field told us that she would NOT talk to us about the Incorporation papers, nor the letterhead and "denomination" situation. She cited a verse where she felt it would just be "striving about words to no profit."
Listees: Do these questions qualify us for the designation of "bitter?" "Bad spirit?" "Stupid?" "Unwilling?" "Crazy?" "Enemy of the truth?"
Larry and Bonnie 1/97
Listen, the bottom line is this: The workers have taken pride in the fact that they are NOT a denomination and that they do NOT take a name. Obviously this is NOT true and it seems clear that it has NOT been true for years and years and years. I personally have NO objection to them incorporating or taking a name. In fact, I think they SHOULD. What I don't think a church should do is LIE!!!! Willis' apology is one of the first steps I've seen for this sect to turn itself around. Could it be that the workers have now started a trend to be honest and open with the people they lead? 1/97
The February '99 custody trial in Edmonton Alberta brought new light to the Alberta situation. Many of the friends were not impressed by what they heard from Willis Propp when he was a witness in court.
October 1999 The situation in Alberta continues to be very volatile. In late 1998 house meetings began to close or to be shut down by the workers. By the summer of 1999 over 20 Alberta Canada meetings had either been closed by the workers or been voluntarily closed by the elders of those meetings. Some of these "dissenters" continue to hold meetings WITHOUT worker approval. Those who attend these meeting are not in a favorable light with the workers! Alberta seems to be split in two: The pro-Willis group and the anti-Willis group. There continues to be a lot of tension in Alberta. 10/99