<< When you were professing how did you view Jesus? Who was He in your mind? How did He "seem" to you? >>

I know that I did not ever even entertain the thought that Jesus was God. In fact, I do not think that I was even aware that there were people out there who thought that Jesus was God. I was raised in the 2x2s, and went to multiple meetings a week, and multiple conventions and special meetings a year, and it was never even mentioned.

I do remember vague references to the Trinity being some Catholic doctrine, but I did not even know what the Trinity really was.

Jesus was just a man who had the Christ Spirit. You could have the Christ spirit too if you were as obedient as Jesus was. The term Christ spirit was never really defined as I can remember, but I got the impression that you would basically be living the perfect life if you could access this Christ spirit. It actually does not even make sense logically, but that is the belief system that had indoctrinated my thinking from infancy. In fact, Christ spirit sounds so New Agish.

The emphasis was on follow, follow, follow, follow!!!!! 1/97

When I professed Jesus was an enigma to me. I believed him to be the son of God in much the same fashion as I thought of an earthly father and son. Definitely not the same and definitely not equal. I thought of Jesus as from the beginning with God as His helper and then willing to come to earth as a human being born of the virgin birth. I viewed him as a human being led by the spirit of God in a manner far deeper than any other human ever was or could be. I viewed his death on the cross as "the sacrifice" to give me "the chance" of salvation if I could just live faithful to what I was taught by the workers and stay faithful to the end of my life. This death was not the full price paid for my salvation but only the opening of the door which had to be opened first and then I could hopefully live a life that would secure that prize of salvation after I entered that open door (professing).

I know this sounds awfully confusing and mixed up but then, that is just what I was for 45 years. Thanks be to God that He has revealed to me that Jesus is God and that thru His Grace, and not my works, I am saved.1/97

I talked to one of the friends about Jesus being God. He just said, "Ahhh - don't get into that, there are so many verses proving he is and isn't. You won't get anywhere in talking about it except into an argument." 1/97

I remember Jesus as being an example figure, but more so in the respect that the WORKERS were following the example of Jesus...not really US. So therefore, we had in mind to revere the workers...THEY were the ones really sacrificing like Jesus did....THEY were the ones most WILLING....(are you getting the guilt here?!!)

So, my perception of Jesus was never as a personal saviour...rather as a WAY-SHOWER. And, for those who were "willing", Jesus was a real thing. For those not as "willing", Jesus was just a goal unattainable; one that we would struggle toward all of our lives, and die still not knowing if we "made it." How horribly sad! Hope I made some sense! In Christ and loving it!! ________ 1/97

I've thought a lot about just what did I think about so many things while in the 2x2. Can't say that Jesus was a big concern when I was young. Too much concern with behaving acceptably for parents, who took their queue from workers and from the workers themselves. 1/97

I tried to clear my mind of all I know about the debate on who he is and just remember what I thought, what I felt when I was in the Truth.

He existed in two different ways to me. (1) When I prayed, I remember I really didn't have a strong sense of who he was. I remember, I prayed to God and the thought that there was another being in heaven was a little confusing (like what was Jesus doing in the mean time, and maybe we should talk to him, too). So, in prayer, I talked to God and treated Jesus as an extension of him, I think. However, (2) in testimonies I referred to him as we were taught, part divine... part human... kept pure from sin by his obedience to the Father. So he was an example of how I should do it,.. and more than that he represented things that God was most pleased about! The ultimate in his creation, and literally was love, joy, kindness and connection to the highest power.

So, thinking back on it I see how I did some dualistic thinking (Of course, I'm probably the only one, right!) 1/97

One of the things that really embarrasses me now about my association with the group was that I'd never even thought about so many of the BASIC teachings of Christianity. I remember the first time I read THE CHURCH WITHOUT A NAME & I was reading about Jesus being God. My husband came in & looked over my shoulder at what I was reading & said 'what are they talking about?' I remember saying I know it seems radical & is totally new to me, but the scripture they give sure seems to point to this. We were astounded & unconvinced at first!! The really sad thing is I don't think I can fully articulate what I believed about a lot of things. I do remember trying to struggle with reading Jesus & God & trying to sort one from the other. It did confuse me that Jesus is called Lord & other places it mentions the Lord God but things didn't click into place. It was just another area of confusion!! 1/97

I've thought a lot about just what did I think about so many things while in the 2x2. I kept acknowledging that the scripture said "Jesus is God" and could never find a way to reconcile the worker teaching with not only this but a host of other things. How could Jesus sin? Why teach a religion beginning with man (I knew it had to be started by a man) that would be the only group through whom salvation could be received? Where was the scripture saying the meeting had to be in the home? Why was the scripture regarding women’s hair and adornment so twisted? and on and on. 1/97

Question has been raised about what we thought about Jesus. I knew Jesus to be in existence from the first time GOD spoke, for He was that part of GOD (the Word) since the scripture said so. I knew Him to be the WORD made flesh. I know a word is made up of letters, letters are individual characters. Hence I could see that as the WORD made flesh, Jesus existed as GOD in the Flesh, making up all the individual characteristics of GOD as that WORD made flesh.

I believed Jesus when saying "I am" was using the words of GOD from the old testament, when GOD stated "I AM that I AM!" As a child we were asked to learn all the things Jesus said He was, when all had been quoted, I raised my hand and quoted from the old testament, "I AM that I AM" knowing the WORD speaking was JESUS, Mabel Gibson the maverick sister worker and previous school teacher said, "yes, ____, but that was before he was made flesh and blood to live amongst us."

I never doubted that she believed Him to be GOD, not all of GOD, but GOD in the flesh, for she taught me so repeatedly. That she was maverick there was no doubt, constantly being reprimanded for not paying the brothers enough respect! Her favorite retreat was a lady shunned by many others...

While I feel the system is wrong and corrupt, AND is kept so by ALL incontrol, who have compromised so often and so much to attain their "PLACE" that they have become corrupt themselves...I believe there were/are those who thought/think that idealism has a place in peoples lives, and felt/feel that was/is what the 2x2 system offer(ed/s). I do not defend anyone who fail(ed/s) to believe GOD'S Grace to be sufficient! 1/97

When I was professing I felt distant from Jesus. The workers said He was supposed to be my friend, or at least a hymn we used to sing gave me that impression. (What a friend we have in Jesus.) But still He was distant. I thought of Him as God's Son and the one through whom we prayed. But I got the impression I couldn't talk DIRECTLY to Jesus--only through Him to God.

So, when I prayed Jesus seemed like he was sitting about 10 feet away from me--sort of helping me but I couldn't turn and speak to Him. So, how could He be my friend? I could only think about Him but never talk to Him! I can't imagine (in a "worldly" sense) having a friend I've never talked to!

I knew He died for me but that didn't help me to feel grateful or anything. Really, I just didn't get it--where DID Jesus fit in?

My understanding is so much clearer now. I love Jesus and am SO thankful that He has taken all my sin upon Himself. He died not so that I could have a "chance" at heaven if I am "good enough." Rather, he died to remove ALL my sin because I am not capable of taking care of my own sin. He did what was necessary for MY salvation by dying for ME.

I still sin but I believe He has taken care of my sin. The Holy Spirit convicts me of my sin which enables me to live a better life. But that better life doesn't save me--only Christ can do that.

Since leaving the fellowship I am fully confident that Jesus is part of the God-Head. He is God the Son just as the Holy Spirit is God the Spirit and the One we often think of as GOD, is God the Father. I believe in ONE God who identifies Himself to us in three persons: God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. 1/97

There are some in the 2x2s that DO know that Jesus is part of the Triune God but because the workers don't address this issue these folks continue on not knowing others of the friends do NOT believe/know that Jesus is God come in the flesh. Many of the friends have never even HEARD of such!

Some people who profess had been in Christian churches prior to beginning in the 2x2s. Some of these people take their belief of the Triune God with them into the 2x2 religion. Unfortunately some of these same people never notice that the workers don’t accept Jesus as God come in the flesh. 1/97

[Administrative note: Refer to the Worker-Lurker comments on this site and the replies to him/her.]

When worshipping Jesus was mentioned to a relative by marriage who is a hearty 2x2, the response was: "Oh, we don't worship Jesus!" This was after we left the fellowship, and I was astonished.

>>Worship Jesus? No, the friends do not worship Jesus. I'm sure they feel they are following Jesus and worshipping God in all their doings. <<1/97

The workers maintain that Jesus is the example of perfection that mankind must follow in order to have salvation. They call Jesus, the Savior, and acknowledge that His blood, death and resurrection are the avenue of salvation but they teach that it only applies to those who hear, follow and obey the workers. It is only available through the "Truth", the Two by Two church.

Do the friends follow the workers or do they follow Jesus? The friends follow - for the most part, just a generalization, but holds to the majority - the Jesus that the workers offer the friends. And this Jesus is very similar to their own selves, the workers' own selves. 2/97

My professing aunt told my dad, 'I'll NEVER believe that Jesus is God!'

About this time I also heard about Jesus being God for the very first time in my life. And I didn't believe it! NO WAY! So I set out to prove it false. But the evidence mounted, and I began to really look at the Bible passages. Eventually I had to admit it was true! 12/96

I too found, after really listening, that there was far too much emphasis on the way, instead of on THE WAY who is Jesus. 2/97

"Lord Jesus, You are my righteousness, I am Your sin. You took on You what was mine; yet set on me what was Yours. You became what You were not, that I might become what I was not." -- Martin Luther

If you take poison--thinking it's medicine--all the faith in the world won't restore your life. Similarly, if Jesus is the only source of salvation, and you're trusting in anyone or anything else for your salvation, your faith is useless.

The matter of the crucifix and any picture of Jesus not being good things to have in the house is mentioned in the public meetings and in private talks. 2/97

We are talking about religious cults right? Well, in my humble opinion a religious cult is any religious group that places anyone or anything in the place where Jesus is supposed to be. He is the only mediator between God and man. He himself said He is the only way. Any other way cannot be right. I would also be suspect of any religious group that practices information control. 2/97

We were shocked at how many times "the way" and "the workers" were mentioned. It finally dawned on us every conversation with the friends was full of that, rarely God or Jesus. Jesus, the way, was equal to "the way". 2/97

I have been listening much closer in meetings lately. Several times from several different people, I have heard mention of "thanks for Jesus' sacrifice that allows us these meetings." I heard this even in special meeting!!! No mention from these same people about Jesus' sacrifice for our sins. (Although others mentioned it.) Could some people actually believe Jesus died to bring us meetings??????? ARGH!!!! 12/96

I have a feeling though that, despite what the workers fed her, it seems she may have gotten some of the salvation message by knowing in her heart that Jesus IS God. 08/96

<< I guess it's not really a 2x2 trait to talk much about Jesus. >>>

***You are right! When the subject of Jesus comes up with the 2x2's, it's like a huge black cloud comes right over where we are sitting!! One would think that such a group as this one…. the only group who knows the real "truth" ....would want to talk about Jesus!! No way!! They don't know what to say!! I remember the hesitancy the workers even had about talking about Jesus...and they certainly never brought it up on purpose!!*** 12/96

This confidence that I have comes from having a personal relationship with the one true God...our Lord Jesus Christ. I had finally gotten that special "something" that I had always seen in my Christian friends at school, but never found in my service to God within the 2x2's. 12/96

"Never be afraid to question your beliefs. The only people who responded to the preaching of Jesus, were those prepared to examine their existing beliefs with an open mind."

Now, when I think of the way Jesus loves, I see him washing the disciples' feet. I see him when the disciples were arguing amongst themselves who was the greatest--he set a little child in front of them & told them whoever received the little child in His name, would receive Him, etc. I see him caring about people's natural needs, when they were hungry or thirsty he fed them or gave them a drink. When they were afraid He calmed the storm. When they were sick He healed them. When they were hurting He didn't add to that hurt by condemning them or stoning them. He had compassion, and He displayed that so well when He too wept when Lazarus died, even though He brought him back to life later. But the greatest love He ever showed was when He died on the cross for the sins "I" committed. He died in "my" place. The words to a song I sang at church come to mind & I'll write them here for those who might be unfamiliar. Part of it follows:

The look of love was on His face
Thorns were on His head
Blood was on His scarlet robe
Stained a crimson red
Though His eyes were on the crowd
He looked ahead in time
And When He was on the cross
I was on His mind.

Chorus:
For He knew me yet He loved me
He whose glory makes the heavens shine
So unworthy of such mercy
Yet When He was on the cross
I was on His mind.

Because of His Love,

Joetta Heiser